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Old 12-30-2006, 09:11 AM   #1
LoganSaj
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Default Proper bonus add progression

What is the correct RAW method for adding up total damage modifiers (sw & thr) given the following:

ST15 (1d+1 thr / 2d+1 sw)
* bastard sword (cutting) (+2 thr / +1 sw)
* quality (very fine sharp @ +2 dmg)
* enchanted (+4 dmg)
* weapon master @ +2/die

What if making an AoA (strong)?

What if using the sword two-handed (+1 dmg)?

What if adding an advantage that increases striking ST by +10 ... (total ST 25)
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Old 12-30-2006, 10:10 AM   #2
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Default Re: Proper bonus add progression

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoganSaj
What is the correct RAW method for adding up total damage modifiers (sw & thr) given the following:

ST15 (1d+1 thr / 2d+1 sw)
* bastard sword (cutting) (+2 thr / +1 sw)
* quality (very fine sharp @ +2 dmg)
* enchanted (+4 dmg)
* weapon master @ +2/die
It is 1d+1+2+2+4+2 = 1d+11 imp respectively 4d imp if using the optional rule for modifying dice + adds on p. B269
and
2d+1+2+2+4+4 = 2d+13 cut respectively 5d+2 cut.

But note that there is no official spell that gives a damage bonus of +4, Puissance +3 is the best you can get in GURPS Magic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoganSaj
What if making an AoA (strong)?
It increases to 1d+13 imp / 4d+2 imp and 2d+15 cut / 6d+1 cut.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoganSaj
What if using the sword two-handed (+1 dmg)?
It increases to 1d+12 imp / 4d+1 imp and 2d+14 cut / 6d cut (if it is not also an AoA (Strong)).

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoganSaj
What if adding an advantage that increases striking ST by +10 ... (total ST 25)
Well, you have to calculate everything again using a thrust damage of 2d+2 and a swing damage of 5d-1. That increases the damage bonus from Weapon Master from +2 for thrust and +4 for swing to +4 for thrust and +10 for swing. It also increases the bonus for a swung AoA (Strong from +2 to +5.

Last edited by Nikolai; 12-30-2006 at 10:15 AM.
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Old 12-30-2006, 10:39 AM   #3
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Default Re: Proper bonus add progression

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikolai
But note that there is no official spell that gives a damage bonus of +4, Puissance +3 is the best you can get in GURPS Magic.
With the “Magery and Effect” rules (Basic p.237) wouldn’t magery 4 let you reach +4 with Puissance?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikolai
Well, you have to calculate everything again using a thrust damage of 2d+2 and a swing damage of 5d-1. That increases the damage bonus from Weapon Master from +2 for thrust and +4 for swing to +4 for thrust and +10 for swing. It also increases the bonus for a swung AoA (Strong from +2 to +5.
ST25 works out as:

Thrust 2D +2 +2 +2 +4 +4 = 2D+14, With adds to dice 6D
Swing 5D -1 +1 +2 +4 +10 = 5D +16, With adds to dice 9D+2

With AOA (Strong):
Thrust 2D +2 +2 +2 +4 +4 +2 = 2D+16, With adds to dice 6D+2
Swing 5D -1 +1 +2 +4 +10 +5 = 5D +21, With adds to dice 11D

Two handed:
Thrust 2D +2 +2 +2 +4 +4 +1 = 2D+15, With adds to dice 6D+1
Swing 5D -1 +1 +2 +4 +10 +1 = 5D +17, With adds to dice 9D+3


Two handed With AOA (Strong):
Thrust 2D +2 +2 +2 +4 +4 +1 +2 = 2D+17, With adds to dice 6D+3
Swing 5D -1 +1 +2 +4 +10 +1 +5 = 5D +22, With adds to dice 11D+1

Last edited by NineDaysDead; 12-30-2006 at 01:13 PM. Reason: Because Nikolai is right
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Old 12-30-2006, 12:27 PM   #4
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Default Re: Proper bonus add progression

Quote:
Originally Posted by NineDaysDead
With the “Magery and Effect” rules (Basic p.237) wouldn’t magery 4 let you reach +4 with Puissance?
I would say that this rule doesn't apply to enchantment spells. The reason for this is that enchantment spells don't have any official energy costs for additional levels of effect.

But any GM could certainly rule that high levels of Magery do add additional levels of effect even for enchantment spells in his campaign. But he would have to make up the approriate energy costs for each spell.
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Old 12-30-2006, 12:35 PM   #5
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Default Re: Proper bonus add progression

Quote:
Originally Posted by NineDaysDead
With AOA (Strong):
Swing 5D -1 +1 +2 +4 +10 +4 = 5D +20, With adds to dice 10D+2
Quote:
Originally Posted by NineDaysDead
Two handed With AOA (Strong):
Swing 5D -1 +1 +2 +4 +10 +1 +4 = 5D +21, With adds to dice 11D
The damage bonus for AoA (Strong) is the maximum of "+2" and "+1 per die" and thus should be +5 and not +4 for swung attacks. ;-)
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Old 12-30-2006, 01:32 PM   #6
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Default Re: Proper bonus add progression

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikolai
I would say that this rule doesn't apply to enchantment spells. The reason for this is that enchantment spells don't have any official energy costs for additional levels of effect.
I'd take that as an example of another thing that needs fixing in Magic.
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Old 12-30-2006, 11:25 PM   #7
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Default Re: Proper bonus add progression

Well there is no further scale to determine the cost of a +4 puissance enchantment, 3 data points are a bit low to come up with a trend. However it's obvious that the cost would be between 25,000 and 30,000 energy, which would be an awful lot of enchanting for a very expensive item in any event.
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Old 12-31-2006, 07:52 AM   #8
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Default Re: Proper bonus add progression

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoganSaj
ST15 (1d+1 thr / 2d+1 sw)
* bastard sword (cutting) (+2 thr / +1 sw)
* quality (very fine sharp @ +2 dmg)
* enchanted (+4 dmg)
* weapon master @ +2/die
never mind what is possible, what/ when do you add/change figures?

Is it +4 = 1 die, +7 = 2 dice, +10 = 3 dice, +14 = 4 dice?
Isn't there a chart somewhere that gives the changes?

When does Weapon Master get added - right the end when all other mods are made? If AoA changes the die tally, is it before or after WM?
I mean, if the sword does 2d+1 thr / 2d sw, the ST 15 user would then rate as 3d+2 thr / 4d+1 sw.
So WM would add +6/ +8 for 5d+1 thr / 6d+2 sw?
AoA strong is +2 or +1 per die: is that +3/+4 or +5/+6?
Then again, if the following is correct: 3d+2, AoA +3 = 4d+1, WM +8 = 6d+2 versus 3d+2, WM +6 = 5d+1, AoA +5 = 6d+2; does it matter which comes first?
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Old 12-31-2006, 08:02 AM   #9
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Default Re: Proper bonus add progression

Quote:
Originally Posted by jacobmuller
never mind what is possible, what/ when do you add/change figures?
Officially you don't. The Dice + Adds (p. B269) is a completely optional rule - if you're using it you always convert at the end, after all bonuses have been figured. This means that the bonus from Weapons Master or similar are always calculated from the base dice of damage, then converted into dice of damage.

Quote:
If AoA changes the die tally, is it before or after WM?
Normally, AoA won't change the die tally - it just gives a straight bonus. This is for convenience at the play table, so you don't have to recalculate damage when a situational modifier is applied. If you really want the added complexity, WM should (as always) be figured from the base dice of damage, before converting for Dice + Adds. Not sure about AoA Strong's +1/die, but I would base it on the final dice of damage, as calculated from the Dice + Adds rule. Again, this is mainly for convenience, so you don't have to track two different damage values for a weapon (the base dice and the modified dice of damage).
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Last edited by ericbsmith; 12-31-2006 at 08:08 AM.
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Old 12-31-2006, 08:34 AM   #10
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Default Re: Proper bonus add progression

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericbsmith
Not sure about AoA Strong's +1/die, but I would base it on the final dice of damage, as calculated from the Dice + Adds rule. Again, this is mainly for convenience, so you don't have to track two different damage values for a weapon (the base dice and the modified dice of damage).
I strongly disagree. That would mean that when using the optional rule on converting adds to dice, AoA (Strong) becomes much more useful.
The official way to do it is to add *everything* including Weapon Master damage boni and AoA boni before converting adds to dice. (P. B269 is quite explicit: "If a modifier is given "per die of damage," apply it per die of basic thrusting or swinging damage, before you convert adds to dice.")
And yes, that means that it isn't always a straight +2 or +1/die for AoA (Strong) because you have to consider if another +3 or +4 of adds are necessary for the next die. I agree that this can be a hassle in the heat of combat action in play. That is why I have added a "damage with AoA (Strong)" column on my character sheets.

Last edited by Nikolai; 12-31-2006 at 08:48 AM.
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