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Old 03-15-2018, 08:37 PM   #21
Jim Kane
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Default Re: The Immovable Foundation-Stone on which TFT Characters are Built

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Originally Posted by vitruvian View Post
But the algebraic formulae upon which you're placing so much weight never really had any purpose other than getting (starting) characters to attribute levels where they could contend against each other pretty fairly.
Actually, the point-and-purpose of the dialog is to determine the philosophy behind the Desinger's Premise - expressed algebraically - from a perspective of game-design; so that postulated modifications to the rules-set can be evaluated to determine if they are in-concert with that same philosophy; all in an effort to preserve consistency of form, function, flow, fun, and feel.

Obviously one cannot do that, unless and until, that philosophical design question is answered.

In short, it's not a rules discussion - as your answer attempts to relate it with - but rather, it's a discussion of game-design premises and philosophies; and that might explain why you failed to understand why there is the existence of "so much weight" on the algebraic formula in question and under examination.

I hope I was able to make things clearer for you.

PS - Your Member Name is quite apropos to the topic we are "dissecting", eh? Also, consider this: Many times a man and woman get into a car, which "never really had any purpose other than" to take them to the drive-in movies,... BUT they come back with a baby, nonetheless. Consequence is often NOT the result of original intent, BUT it must must be dealt with AND defined - for the simple fact the "IT" exists.

Last edited by Jim Kane; 03-16-2018 at 02:59 AM. Reason: typo
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Old 03-15-2018, 09:12 PM   #22
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Default Re: The Immovable Foundation-Stone on which TFT Characters are Built

Why not just ASK the designer?
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Old 03-15-2018, 09:55 PM   #23
Jim Kane
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Default Re: The Immovable Foundation-Stone on which TFT Characters are Built

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Why not just ASK the designer?
I would love too, but it seems like he hasn't been on lately to ask. Besides, I am still waiting for an answer to another question I asked him sometime ago. I have a feeling he might be real busy with re-editing at this time. So, when the time is right, I shall indeed take it the source for the answer.
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Old 03-15-2018, 10:04 PM   #24
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Default Re: The Immovable Foundation-Stone on which TFT Characters are Built

I will virtually guarantee he reads everything on here. He certainly did on the Ogre forum when that was in the works...even if he didn't interject much.

I think he likes to see how all the foam settles out on a lot of these discussions, and figures if he says anything he might inadvertently shut down the conversation -- which he doesn't want to do as long as there is a chance he can learn something from it.
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Old 03-15-2018, 10:17 PM   #25
Jim Kane
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Default Re: The Immovable Foundation-Stone on which TFT Characters are Built

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I will virtually guarantee he reads everything on here. He certainly did on the Ogre forum when that was in the works...even if he didn't interject much.

I think he likes to see how all the foam settles out on a lot of these discussions, and figures if he says anything he might inadvertently shut down the conversation -- which he doesn't want to do as long as there is a chance he can learn something from it.
Sound very Logical, and what I would likewise do in the same position.

Last edited by Jim Kane; 03-15-2018 at 11:26 PM.
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Old 03-16-2018, 11:57 AM   #26
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Default Re: The Immovable Foundation-Stone on which TFT Characters are Built

Two thoughts:

1) I seriously doubt Mr. Jackson had arithmetic laws in mind when devising ST & DX, as interesting as Jim's analysis is.

2) Some of us have WAAAAAY too much free time on our hands!

Cheers!
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Old 03-16-2018, 12:42 PM   #27
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Default Re: The Immovable Foundation-Stone on which TFT Characters are Built

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Two thoughts:

1) I seriously doubt Mr. Jackson had arithmetic laws in mind when devising ST & DX, as interesting as Jim's analysis is.

2) Some of us have WAAAAAY too much free time on our hands!

Cheers!
LOL! I have to agree here. I can't imagine him sitting down and working out obscure mathematical formulae for something that appears to be quite clearly based on an intense desire to organize the D&D random generation method and give players some choices.

(In fact, I'm willing to bet that he originally based the Melee game concept on ST and DX because he felt these were the only two D&D characteristics that mattered in a fight and were therefore the only two he needed to deal with -- the other attributes would just sort of sit there and not interfere. Remember, he stated that the game originated with a desire to make D&D combat more satisfying...)
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Old 03-16-2018, 12:52 PM   #28
Jim Kane
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Default Re: The Immovable Foundation-Stone on which TFT Characters are Built

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Originally Posted by Jackal View Post
Two thoughts:

1) I seriously doubt Mr. Jackson had arithmetic laws in mind when devising ST & DX, as interesting as Jim's analysis is.

2) Some of us have WAAAAAY too much free time on our hands!

Cheers!
Only he could say. But his educational background is not only in Probability and Statistics, but also Law - that a fairly high-level of mental training; I would be more surprised if he wasn't using it.

Speaking of Law School, did you ever notice how "lawerly" TFT reads compared to other rules-sets?

LOL!! Jack - You must not be aware that I am an exceptionally fast typist, and i have been thinking about these things we discuss here for 40 years,... that's a LOT of time in building up Fred Flinstone traction LOL!

Last edited by Jim Kane; 03-18-2018 at 01:44 PM.
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Old 03-16-2018, 12:57 PM   #29
Jim Kane
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Default Re: The Immovable Foundation-Stone on which TFT Characters are Built

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LOL! I have to agree here. I can't imagine him sitting down and working out obscure mathematical formulae for something that appears to be quite clearly based on an intense desire to organize the D&D random generation method and give players some choices.

(In fact, I'm willing to bet that he originally based the Melee game concept on ST and DX because he felt these were the only two D&D characteristics that mattered in a fight and were therefore the only two he needed to deal with -- the other attributes would just sort of sit there and not interfere. Remember, he stated that the game originated with a desire to make D&D combat more satisfying...)
LOL!! You guys are killing me here LOL!

I would bet that your bet is a good bet to make JVL.

After all Melee was an after-market "Patch" for D&D's combat system. So I suppose the idea was, just like dropping into Avalon Hill's Outdoor Survival for the overland adventuring, one would drop-into Melee for the combats - pre-Holmes Blue Book D&D
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Old 03-17-2018, 01:18 AM   #30
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Default Re: The Immovable Foundation-Stone on which TFT Characters are Built

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I would bet that your bet is a good bet to make JVL.
Erm...just for the record, it's "JLV"... ;-)
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