What is the punk in "Steampunk"?

[Agemegos]

The hour is upon me, and convention orgs are breathing down my neck. I have to get cracking on a blurb for my game for Phenomenon '13. Among other things, the Writer Wrangler has asked me to nominate the genre of my game, so as best to signal to potential players what they might like to play.

The game I have pitched is heavily inspired by the wonderful Girl Genius webcomic, but since no Foglios are to be harmed in the making, I don't wish to convey the impression that the game will be set in the actual setting of Girl Genius. That would be misleading.

Also, I don't know how well-known Girl Genius is among the pool of potential players. All my friends know about it, because I have been raving about it for years. But what about the punters?

So my question is: what genre is Girl Genius? Kaja Foglio doesn't like "Steampunk", because she doesn't think there are any punk elements in the setting. She prefers "Gaslamp Fantasy", but

1. That might be totally uncommunicative to someone who is not already familiar with GG, and
2. I think the setting contains a lot more sci-fi elements (AI, Frankenstein's monsters, death rays, uplifted animals) than classically fantasy ones (elves, spells).

So, questions:

1. What is the "punk" in steampunk, that Girl Genius doesn't have it?
2. What would the punting public make of "Gaslamp Sci-Fi", if I used that?
3. What think you of "Mad Science Fiction"?

[Jovus]

The 'punk' in 'steampunk' refers to the same thing it does everywhere else: the social movement of anti-establishment (and decrying the establishment as authoritarian, oppressive, and avaricious) that became quite prevalent in the 80's, and that I personally believe is a second-generation inversion of that original feeling of anticapitalism that bred Marx, via the disillusionment of the 1920's. (c.f. The Great Gatsby) It shares that with 'cyberpunk' which is the genre that (again, I believe) originally gave rise to steampunk. Unsurprisingly, William Gibson writes some exemplar steampunk; check out The Difference Engine.

However, I am a layman, not a scholar in these matters, and have little to back up the above assertions except anecdotal evidence and what I flatter myself is a facility for tracing historical zeitgeists. If you want a real answer, talk to someone who studies the matter.

[Jovus]

However, as an addendum to the above, I will point out that 'steampunk' through its popularization has come to mean something quite broader than what I wrote would indicate, in some usages becoming so indistinct that it covers everything with airships and gewgaws.

[Anaraxes]

I'm not very familiar with GG (it's on my list, but I haven't had time to dig into it so far). But from the little exposure I had, it didn't seem to have that sense of alienation and nihilism, nor did it seem like it was trying to be gritty, raw, frank and direct, rejecting of idealism.

A lot of things called steampunk probably fail that test as well. The word is no doubt an analogy to cyberpunk, but it usually seems to me more to refer to a visual style than anything else -- brass and gears, Victoriana.

It sounds like Kaja Foglio is using the word "fantasy" is its broader sense, which could well be confusing. GG has plenty of fantastic elements, but at some point "fantasy" versus "SF" becomes more about the details. Do the Foglios try to put any "hard" into their "SF", or is it more a matter of technological trappings?

[Archangel Beth]

Another "is it punk" test might be... is it at least mildly dystopian? (Not in the Civilization Is In Ruins mode -- there needs to be tech (either cyber or steam) to qualify.)

But, as said, "cyberpunk" and "steampunk" would probably be understood as incorporating more than just an establishment-dystopia-with-individualism-rebels-and-hightech/steam-trappings setting.

[johndallman]

"Mad-Science Fiction" seems like the best term for what you seem to be trying for.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Brett

So, questions:

1. What is the "punk" in steampunk, that Girl Genius doesn't have it?
2. What would the punting public make of "Gaslamp Sci-Fi", if I used that?
3. What think you of "Mad Science Fiction"?

There never was much "punk" in Steampunk. It was just a neologism that followed Bruce Striling over from cyberpunk. The original punks in cyberpunk were underground or street level characters. Steampunk had its' fringe elements but they were almost never street level. In fact they tended to be eccentric aritocrats rather than street level people.

As it has evolved "Steampunk" has become a fashion meme as much as anything. That's how a friend of mine uses it anyway when she "likes" Steampunk stuff on Facebook.

So, if your group has any current references for "Stempunk" you can probably use that word without fear that they will later complain that no actual punks appear. "Punk" is as dead as Sid Viscious.

If you rather than they care you might call it "Steampulp" if you have have the steam and many pulp magazine elements. "Steamtech SF" or
"Age of Steam SF" might be alternatives. The "Mad" can be assumed as the real science of the era was rather dull from a current perspective.

If you do have a Victorian fashion sense involved then you might throw your audience off with Mad Science Fiction if that led them to expect a design sense from the 30s or 50s. I thnk of those eras as the Golden Age of Mad Science at least.

I do not find "Gaslamp" to be an evocative term as it seems to invvle a specific (and mundane) item to me rather than an atmosphere. Better to steal from "Cthulhu by Gaslight" is there must be gas in there somewhere. I don't have a good formultation with "gas" anything it it though.

[thrash]

Marcus Rowland at Forgotten Futures calls the genre that includes Verne and Wells, "Scientific Romance."

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by Brett

What is the "punk" in steampunk, that Girl Genius doesn't have it?

Having been the sort of punk with pointy hair and leather, I'll bite. It has to do with the most fundamental (perhaps only) "punk principle": Do it yourself. Adopt your way of dressing, playing guitar, living, etc. rather than the established way. Contrary to popular belief, it isn't about rejecting society . . . rather, it's about not accepting the prevailing norms as a script. You pick and choose the elements you want, and you leave behind the ones you don't want. It's entirely possible (if unlikely) for a punk to deconstruct everything and, through his own choices, end up picking what the rest of society did anyway; the difference is that the outcome was something he chose, not something that was imposed on him.

Steampunk is about a DIY view of science and technology – in more radical examples, inventors even seem to choose which scientific principles govern their inventions! In more recent times, steampunk also incorporates a DIY view of fashion and other aesthetics. It can coexist with a polite, Victorian view of society if its adherents choose that path rather than have it thrust upon them. It feels more like "punk," I suppose, if they choose a Victorian-seeming aesthetic and/or moral sense in a society where those views don't prevail (e.g., today).

I think GG somewhat lacks the sense of choice I'd expect in a "punk" genre. Everybody seems to be playing a part in a family history, a society, or a conspiracy. Nobody is blowing it all off, clearing his or her mind, and making choices. At best it has a little of the faux-punk edge of the naughty kid who acts out, which is about as "punk" as a vivid hair color on a supermodel in a fashion magazine that sells millions of issues (which is to say, not at all).

[Agemegos]

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

It sounds like Kaja Foglio is using the word "fantasy" is its broader sense, which could well be confusing.

Just what I thought!

GG has plenty of fantastic elements, but at some point "fantasy" versus "SF" becomes more about the details. Do the Foglios try to put any "hard" into their "SF", or is it more a matter of technological trappings?

None whatsoever. Neither scientific accuracy nor technical detail is of the slightest interest to the narrative. It is definitely sci-fi rather than SF. What scientists there are are definitely and unashamedly in the "'Mad', they called me! I'll show them!" mould.