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Old 06-30-2018, 11:44 PM   #41
Daigoro
 
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Default Re: GURPS DF / DFRPG Random Dungeon Generator

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Originally Posted by zuljita View Post
Do you have any suggestions on how that could be output in a useful way?
Presuming each room itself is level, just have a faint index number next to the room giving the elevation or depression figure.
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Old 07-01-2018, 09:14 AM   #42
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Default Re: GURPS DF / DFRPG Random Dungeon Generator

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Originally Posted by Daigoro View Post
Presuming each room itself is level, just have a faint index number next to the room giving the elevation or depression figure.
Damn, that's clever. A lot of code, surely, but clever.

Is there any way to make the dungeon monster output NOT be so CER-based? This goes back to classic D&D dungeons: the top level is filled with low-value loot and weak monsters, and both the loot and the monsters get more powerful as you go down. There needs to be a variety of power levels even in the same level too. That includes push-over encounters as well as boss encounters, the former of which look almost absent (at least when I try to generate dungeons) and the former of which are common. The opposite is more normal.
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Old 07-02-2018, 08:17 AM   #43
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Default Re: GURPS DF / DFRPG Random Dungeon Generator

If you want to change the difficulty for the next level, change the CER.

There is a wide spread of difficulty being generated for encounters - what is NOT done is saying 'OK, we're going to have 10 encounters for this level, so since 60% of encounters have to be easy, we will make 6 encounters easy'.

Instead, there might be a 60% chance of easy encounters, but that chance is rolled for each encounter independently. As we all know, probability is not a rule - you could have all ten encounters to come up as boss fights.

Each room sets up its own encounter independently, with no knowledge of other rooms.
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Old 07-02-2018, 08:45 AM   #44
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Default Re: GURPS DF / DFRPG Random Dungeon Generator

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Damn, that's clever. A lot of code, surely, but clever.
What might be more handy, what with spells like Shape Air and Shape Earth being popular, is a little data box for all a room's dimensions- height, width, length, floor area and volume.
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Old 07-02-2018, 09:33 AM   #45
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Default Re: GURPS DF / DFRPG Random Dungeon Generator

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Instead, there might be a 60% chance of easy encounters, but that chance is rolled for each encounter independently. As we all know, probability is not a rule - you could have all ten encounters to come up as boss fights.
After checking with two colossal dungeons, I can safely say that there is not a 60% chance of an easy encounter. Frex, I just generated a colossal dungeon with 77 rooms and 42 encounters. Standard 125 CER party. Of those 42 encounters, only 4 had CERs below the party's 125, and none of them were much below that (lowest was 100).

What's the algorithm to determine if a room is occupied or trapped? For that dungeon, I got 77 rooms, 42 with monsters, and 15 with traps. I try this a second time, I get 73 rooms, 37 with monsters (and 6 with CERs below 125), and with 18 traps. Third time, 204 rooms (switching to small rooms), 106 with monsters (6 with CERs below 125), 50 with traps. (Is there something to make sure monsters actually fit in the rooms? The last dungeon generated a 50 ft. by 30 ft. room with two small cold dragons as well as two vampires, though I'm sure the latter two would be in coffins and not taking up much space. That's tight.)

That suggests to me that half of all rooms will have monsters, and about 20-25% will have traps. About a tenth of all encounters will have total monster CERs below the party average, which is awfully low, and even many of them are only a bit below. I think I generated only 1 or 2 that had half or less of the party CER. Dungeon crawls in these dungeons are going to be incredibly lethal, with loads of tough encounters and few empty rooms in which to try to rest up.

Incidentally, a bug:

"Monsters: CER: NaN; NaN x undefined (Oops p0, undefined pundefined)"

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Originally Posted by Daigoro View Post
What might be more handy, what with spells like Shape Air and Shape Earth being popular, is a little data box for all a room's dimensions- height, width, length, floor area and volume.
Like this?

"Description: This room is 30 feet wide and 50 feet long. There is a ceramic idol (8" tall). There is a table, large. There is a loamy smell."

Aside from the height not being there, I'd say that's enough. (Why are dimensions in feet instead of yards?) The volume and area aren't going to come up enough in a game to be really worth it.
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Old 07-02-2018, 09:42 AM   #46
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Default Re: GURPS DF / DFRPG Random Dungeon Generator

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Dungeon crawls in these dungeons are going to be incredibly lethal, with loads of tough encounters and few empty rooms in which to try to rest up.
I have about 135 hours of GM time using this (and previous versions of it). The first few fights with each group were pretty dangerous until PC's got their tactics under control. After that, my players did well enough tactically to make even bosses a slog but not extremely dangerous in general. I'm looking at ways to increase CER without adding lots more monsters now because my players just aren't challenged.
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Old 07-02-2018, 10:03 AM   #47
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Default Re: GURPS DF / DFRPG Random Dungeon Generator

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After checking with two colossal dungeons, I can safely say that there is not a 60% chance of an easy encounter.
My appologies for not being clearer, but I said "might be" as in "I have no idea what the number is, I'm on my phone and am using a number as an example".

Room population is held in a table, which is an external data file and can be modified - just download it and have a look. I've put as MUCH as possible in user configurable files, including the distribution of encounter difficulty.
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Old 07-02-2018, 10:08 AM   #48
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Default Re: GURPS DF / DFRPG Random Dungeon Generator

I feel the need to point out here that this was designed to be a download-and-run-at-home program, not really as a webapp.

The really nitty-gritty configuration is done in the data files, not through the dropdowns, because I could slowly go insane trying to add enough UI for the ten gazillion items you need to tweak. Well, insaner.

As a webapp, these things are only exposed by the person hosting the app. If you download it yourself (remember, it doesn't require anything special-er than a web browser) you can have full control over the factors I put into data files, which was as much as I could possibly figure out how to do.
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Old 07-02-2018, 12:02 PM   #49
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Default Re: GURPS DF / DFRPG Random Dungeon Generator

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Originally Posted by Bruno View Post
The really nitty-gritty configuration is done in the data files, not through the dropdowns, because I could slowly go insane trying to add enough UI for the ten gazillion items you need to tweak. Well, insaner.

As a webapp, these things are only exposed by the person hosting the app. If you download it yourself (remember, it doesn't require anything special-er than a web browser) you can have full control over the factors I put into data files, which was as much as I could possibly figure out how to do.
You know, it shouldn't be too hard to write a small chunk of UI that allows "uploading" replacement datafiles to blob storage and then sourcing those instead of the default datafiles — as an alternative to exposing all the individual fiddly bits within said datafiles.

Lemme get breakfast and caffeine and then I might huck a PR in your general direction...
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Old 07-02-2018, 12:35 PM   #50
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Default Re: GURPS DF / DFRPG Random Dungeon Generator

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Originally Posted by Bruno View Post
I feel the need to point out here that this was designed to be a download-and-run-at-home program, not really as a webapp.

The really nitty-gritty configuration is done in the data files, not through the dropdowns, because I could slowly go insane trying to add enough UI for the ten gazillion items you need to tweak. Well, insaner.

As a webapp, these things are only exposed by the person hosting the app. If you download it yourself (remember, it doesn't require anything special-er than a web browser) you can have full control over the factors I put into data files, which was as much as I could possibly figure out how to do.
Most people aren't programers and don't feel comfortable messing around with javascript files. Even for people who are programmers, just randomly fiddling with somebody else's code can be difficult, especially if it's not well documented inside the code (and looking over all of the files in the data folder, which I presume are the ones you mean by "data files," they seem about as well documented as most of my code in my various projects are - that is, not at all). Most people just feel more comfortable if they can enter a number or setting in a drop-down menu in a UI and hit Go.
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