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Old 08-02-2018, 05:05 AM   #1
notly1988
 
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Default Default DriveThruRPG, community content and writing for GURPS

I'm reading the forum for a while and I have noticed some posts about writing for GURPS, what it needs... now, how to pump up the sales, etc. A lot of the comments are about how people want ready made adventures but to be published by SJG it has to be short, generic, respecting the template, wouldn't sell, and so on...

I also read the unfortunate news about Pyramid, a really set back for aspiring new writers.
SJG start selling their products recently in the DriveThruRPG and this site have a Community Content Program for some publishers, even that other game and storytelling.
So why not create a CCP for GURPS?

It is a good way to know and test new writers, have new content* and adventures published without cost for SJG, maybe attract new buyers for the core product, see what kind of adventures sells best after some releases

* all publishers have guidelines about what can and cannot be published based on their game, and I don't expect a lot of freedom from SJG either.

I know SJG have high quality standards for their products, and have anyone writing, without editors, can be disastrous. But the seal of Community Content is there to warn the customer of that! And that the product wasn't made by SJG.

The reason of this post is not to have an answer about this matter, but to discuss the pros and cons, the boundaries, the possible guidelines of a GURPS Community Content Program in DTRPG.

The Online Policy of SJG permit a lot of things, but maybe I want to make content but don't want to have a blog, or want to write adventures for GURPS without following the template. Who knows...
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Old 08-02-2018, 06:10 AM   #2
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Default Re: Default DriveThruRPG, community content and writing for GURPS

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Originally Posted by notly1988 View Post
I also read the unfortunate news about Pyramid, a really set back for aspiring new writers.
What news? The last I heard was the call for contributions to a compilation of Pyramid 2 articles for Dungeon Fantasy, the issue with articles on Venice and Victoria BC, and another issue in the pipes.

I see something on the Pyramid website ....
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Old 08-02-2018, 06:13 AM   #3
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Default Re: Default DriveThruRPG, community content and writing for GURPS

Chaosium did something like that for Cthulhu: the Miskatonic Repository. You write something, following some templates to help you, and publish it on DriveThruRPG, in the Miskatonic Repository section. You can give it for free or at a given cost, in which case a percentage of what you earn will go to Chaosium, of course.

I don't know at all if it would be a good think for GURPS, but I've read that some official authors began by writing something in the Miskatonic Repository. So, it sounds to work for Cthulhu.
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Old 08-02-2018, 06:36 AM   #4
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Default Re: Default DriveThruRPG, community content and writing for GURPS

SJ Games's firm, long-standing resistance to any kind of process which doesn't involve their active participation at some point in the process strongly suggests that this is unlikely. But I think this confuses two separate things. Do you (not necessarily notly1988, but some notional you) want to write GURPS, or do you want to sell GURPS? If all you want to do is write, the current on-line policy lets you do that. Do you want, as you say, to write adventures which don't follow the template? You can do that right now, this very minute, without anybody stopping you. Indeed, I dabble in that myself.

Where the current policy draws a line is between writing, which you're free to do, and selling, which is a different animal. But if you're really determined to do that, they've got a process for that: talk to them about it. Negotiate a license. Doug did it, and the impression I get from him is that it was a pretty painless process.

Of course, it may be that it's easy and painless for somebody with a track record of independently producing salable product like Doug or, say, Robert Conley, but I think they're right, or at the very least have a very good case to make, when it comes to acting as gatekeepers. While one might hope that a sort of official stamp of unofficiality that you'd get with an open license might distance 3rd party product from the publisher's own stuff, history shows that isn't the case. Look at the flood of cheap d20 material and how that hurt the reputation of D&D as a whole. And that's particularly important for a line like GURPS, where a reputation for quality is a significant part of what allows it to survive.

But, to come back to the point, current policies allow you to write whatever you like. But selling something isn't writing. It's business. So if that's what you want, come prepared to do business.
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Old 08-02-2018, 08:35 AM   #5
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Default Re: Default DriveThruRPG, community content and writing for GURPS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turhan's Bey Company View Post
Do you want, as you say, to write adventures which don't follow the template? You can do that right now, this very minute, without anybody stopping you. Indeed, I dabble in that myself.
Is not the same thing. Personally, I'd rather access content in a organized PDF than on a website.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Turhan's Bey Company View Post
Look at the flood of cheap d20 material and how that hurt the reputation of D&D as a whole.
That flood of cheap materials didn't hurt D&D's reputation at all. In fact, D&D sales were never as high as they were then. Wizards launched books every month because it had the market for it. Bad books at most hurt the image of the companies they came from, not the D&D image.
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Old 08-02-2018, 08:37 AM   #6
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Default Re: Default DriveThruRPG, community content and writing for GURPS

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Originally Posted by Turhan's Bey Company View Post
But, to come back to the point, current policies allow you to write whatever you like. But selling something isn't writing. It's business. So if that's what you want, come prepared to do business.
That is a very good point which people who don't sell writing often miss! (Actually, I remember some essays by published novelists who don't seem to grok the difference between not being allowed to write a novel about someone else's setting and not being allowed to sell it).

As an author who has material in the slush pile at Pyramid, if none of the remaining issues is a good fit, maybe I will propose a 12 or 21-page PDF which would let me recycle the material.
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Old 08-02-2018, 10:42 AM   #7
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Default Re: Default DriveThruRPG, community content and writing for GURPS

Is it an impression of mine or this post is VERY similar to this one?
http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=158767

Anyway,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polydamas View Post
What news? The last I heard was the call for contributions to a compilation of Pyramid 2 articles for Dungeon Fantasy, the issue with articles on Venice and Victoria BC, and another issue in the pipes.

I see something on the Pyramid website ....
this news, in the Pyramid forums:
http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=158711

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanjo7Sagi View Post
Is not the same thing. Personally, I'd rather access content in a organized PDF than on a website.

That flood of cheap materials didn't hurt D&D's reputation at all. In fact, D&D sales were never as high as they were then. Wizards launched books every month because it had the market for it. Bad books at most hurt the image of the companies they came from, not the D&D image.
I agree. Looking for a campaign in a blog or website, or maintaining a campaign in a blog or website isn’t appealing to me.

And about the reputation, for me, only people who can’t differentiate publishers would think it is the same thing.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Turhan's Bey Company View Post

SJ Games's firm, long-standing resistance to any kind of process which doesn't involve their active participation at some point in the process strongly suggests that this is unlikely. But I think this confuses two separate things. Do you (not necessarily notly1988, but some notional you) want to write GURPS, or do you want to sell GURPS? If all you want to do is write, the current on-line policy lets you do that. Do you want, as you say, to write adventures which don't follow the template? You can do that right now, this very minute, without anybody stopping you. Indeed, I dabble in that myself.

Where the current policy draws a line is between writing, which you're free to do, and selling, which is a different animal. But if you're really determined to do that, they've got a process for that: talk to them about it. Negotiate a license. Doug did it, and the impression I get from him is that it was a pretty painless process.

Of course, it may be that it's easy and painless for somebody with a track record of independently producing salable product like Doug or, say, Robert Conley, but I think they're right, or at the very least have a very good case to make, when it comes to acting as gatekeepers. While one might hope that a sort of official stamp of unofficiality that you'd get with an open license might distance 3rd party product from the publisher's own stuff, history shows that isn't the case. Look at the flood of cheap d20 material and how that hurt the reputation of D&D as a whole. And that's particularly important for a line like GURPS, where a reputation for quality is a significant part of what allows it to survive.

But, to come back to the point, current policies allow you to write whatever you like. But selling something isn't writing. It's business. So if that's what you want, come prepared to do business.
what about writing an adventure or NPC descriptions that could fit two or three rule systems and GURPS? The writer have the work of making the story and converting it to the systems that let him do it.
It is not necessarily selling only GURPS.

Someone could argue that it is possible to the buyer convert the adventure to GURPS, but there are some statements in the forum of people who don’t want to have this work to play.

There are other issues. If you are not making money with it, you probably won’t invest in some artwork, good editing, good maps…
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Old 08-02-2018, 11:25 PM   #8
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Default Re: Default DriveThruRPG, community content and writing for GURPS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turhan's Bey Company View Post
SJ Games's firm, long-standing resistance to any kind of process which doesn't involve their active participation at some point in the process strongly suggests that this is unlikely. But I think this confuses two separate things. Do you (not necessarily notly1988, but some notional you) want to write GURPS, or do you want to sell GURPS? If all you want to do is write, the current on-line policy lets you do that. Do you want, as you say, to write adventures which don't follow the template? You can do that right now, this very minute, without anybody stopping you. Indeed, I dabble in that myself.

Where the current policy draws a line is between writing, which you're free to do, and selling, which is a different animal. But if you're really determined to do that, they've got a process for that: talk to them about it. Negotiate a license. Doug did it, and the impression I get from him is that it was a pretty painless process.

Of course, it may be that it's easy and painless for somebody with a track record of independently producing salable product like Doug or, say, Robert Conley, but I think they're right, or at the very least have a very good case to make, when it comes to acting as gatekeepers. While one might hope that a sort of official stamp of unofficiality that you'd get with an open license might distance 3rd party product from the publisher's own stuff, history shows that isn't the case. Look at the flood of cheap d20 material and how that hurt the reputation of D&D as a whole. And that's particularly important for a line like GURPS, where a reputation for quality is a significant part of what allows it to survive.

But, to come back to the point, current policies allow you to write whatever you like. But selling something isn't writing. It's business. So if that's what you want, come prepared to do business.
Thank you very much for that distinction between writing and selling, which really helps to understand Steve Jackson Games point of view.

But there is another important one to take into account. Writing and being read.

Without necessarilly wanting to earn money, someone who takes a lot of time to write an adventure (or anything else for GURPS) usually hopes that it will be useful for others. The problem with personnal websites is precisely that GURPS fans don't necessary know that they do exist and, even if they know it, don't necessarilly know that they propose what they would like to have.

I didn't know at all that you wrote some fantasy adventures for instance.

Worse: more there will be personnal websites and more it will be hard to know what does exist and where it is.

The advantage of somethink like the Miskatonic Repository is that everything is in the same place. And people who go there perfectly understand that it is not Chaosium products, so that the quality will differ from a true Chaosium product. Everything is clearly explained and there is no possible confusion.

In my humble opinion, GURPS staff is not big enough to have an active participation in everything which could be published for GURPS, showing that the game is played and attractive. A lot of people would like to have adventures. They don't have time to write them. Letting amateurs writing and publishing adventures and putting them in a place clearly defined as "amateur" work would solve the problem.
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Old 08-03-2018, 01:14 AM   #9
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Default Re: Default DriveThruRPG, community content and writing for GURPS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Empada View Post

what about writing an adventure or NPC descriptions that could fit two or three rule systems and GURPS? The writer have the work of making the story and converting it to the systems that let him do it.
It is not necessarily selling only GURPS.
See Hall of Judgement for this approach.
He wrote it for a D&D variant then adapted it for GURPS and is publishing it on his own with the respective companies permission.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gollum View Post

In my humble opinion, GURPS staff is not big enough to have an active participation in everything which could be published for GURPS, showing that the game is played and attractive. A lot of people would like to have adventures. They don't have time to write them. Letting amateurs writing and publishing adventures and putting them in a place clearly defined as "amateur" work would solve the problem.
W23 does sell stuff from other companies or people.
And that includes free stuff. So if your able and willing to publish quality stuff to PDF just talk to them about it and see what arrangements are needed.
If its going to be free its one deal, if your selling it for profit thats another arrangement. But SJG are willing to do it with at least some people.
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My List of GURPS You Tube videos (plus a few other useful items)
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Old 08-03-2018, 05:03 AM   #10
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Default Re: Default DriveThruRPG, community content and writing for GURPS

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Originally Posted by Refplace View Post
W23 does sell stuff from other companies or people.
And that includes free stuff. So if your able and willing to publish quality stuff to PDF just talk to them about it and see what arrangements are needed.
If its going to be free its one deal, if your selling it for profit thats another arrangement. But SJG are willing to do it with at least some people.
The problem is that they are very buzy too. I sent them the translation of GURPS Lite in French a couple of years ago (made by someone much better than me in English) and they didn't have time to publish it yet.

Last edited by Gollum; 08-03-2018 at 06:30 AM.
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