Kicking in the head of lying man: -7. Really?

[GWJ]

Like in the title. Is this errated or something? There are no bonuses for kicking (-2) in the face (-5) of lying man? I know there are penalties for DEFENDER - but come on... Even with All-Out (Determined) Telegraphic Attack, this is merely 11 (yeah, IMO if he need sacrifice defenses and give +2 to foe's defenses, skill-11 is "merely" - still chance greater than 1-in-3, that he will miss despite maximum concentration and determination...).

[joppeknol]

The guy is not lying still. He is moving. You try to hit him in the face who is continuously moving and turning away. I agree the penalty is steep, but I think it is harder than you think. If you don't AOA you can't really look downwards, because you have to pay attention to the other attackers.

If he is lying still, you probably have some bonus to kick a motionless target.

Edit: If you concentrate for a few seconds you evaluate which gives a max of +3.

[Mailanka]

I don't see what his honesty has to do with it.

And I'll note in real-life fights, once you get someone on the ground, most people kick them in the ribs (torso), not in the back of the head. The head is a small target, especially for a mobile, defensive target.

[Flyndaran]

Kicking around the arms covering the head sounds next to impossible.

I imagine most people are injured via a crushing "blow through" or "knockback" of smashing the arms into the head.
Not that I know jack all about combat of any sort.

[Walrus]

Also don't forget that it's 1 second. You can Evaluate for a couple of seconds to raise your skill.
And this is about effective kicking. Sometimes you just make a glancing hit resulting in a bruise which is effectively a miss.

[Gef]

Nope, it's -3 with a Telegraphic Attack.

You choose a Telegraphic Attack because he's on his ass, which compromises his defense, big time.

He defends at +2 against your Telegraphic Attack...and a further -4, for being on the ground (unless he's proficient in Groundfighting technique). If he's down because of stun, that's another -4...and you can attack all-out with impunity, because he can't hit back.

[corwyn]

For me, the issue is the -2 for kicking over punching for a target lying down, or a target of a similar "height". I'm pretty sure I'd have an easier time kicking a cat (not that I'd kick a cat, really, don't tell my GF) than punching one; same goes for a guy lying on the ground.

Maybe the rules for higher elevation should count for prone targets.

[Mathulhu]

A punch is a normal unarmed attack.
A "kick" is -2 to hit +1 damage and a risk of falling over.

Thinking about watching people fight i don't see why these have to be limited to parts of the body. You can throw a punch with so much effort you risk unbalancing yourself and a kick that doesn't.

[Peter Knutsen]

Originally Posted by Walrus

Also don't forget that it's 1 second. You can Evaluate for a couple of seconds to raise your skill.
And this is about effective kicking. Sometimes you just make a glancing hit resulting in a bruise which is effectively a miss.

Much kicking of prone targets is done for the sake of demonstrating social dominance, rather than with maximum damage efficiency in mind. Each kick does hurt the target, but since he's the only "foe" around, you don't have to worry about maintaining a high DPS.

[Mailanka]

Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen

Much kicking of prone targets is done for the sake of demonstrating social dominance, rather than with maximum damage efficiency in mind. Each kick does hurt the target, but since he's the only "foe" around, you don't have to worry about maintaining a high DPS.

Much kicking of prone targets in GURPS are to eliminate the target as quickly as possible. In which case, you're probably making a Stomp Kick, and you're doing it as a follow-up attack to something that made someone prone. I'd also take it as a finishing attack and as a maneuver: Some styles really practice this sort of finisher. I know I built a character around it: Judo parry/throw/curbstomp. Brutally effective.

But that it was difficult didn't strike me as inappropriate. My character could pull it off quickly and casually because he was trained. I'd be surprised if someone with no training at all would be as effective.