03-09-2021, 06:57 PM | #12 | |
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Boston area
|
Re: Brawling once again
Quote:
I'm thinking I might follow Lars's lead and drop the +1 bonus in HTH, since it makes brawling just as good as having a dagger. |
|
03-09-2021, 06:59 PM | #13 |
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Boston area
|
Re: Brawling once again
|
03-10-2021, 11:04 AM | #15 | |
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Boston area
|
Re: Brawling once again
Quote:
Henry, I appreciate many of your contributions, I really do, but this tendency to go on a tangent about how this or that optimized character and equipment can maximize your effectiveness is not always useful. I think my question was fairly clear and straightforward. I'm talking about vanilla characters, not folks who've purposely optimized their ability to engage in HTH. I guess I should give you some credit for only suggesting Dagger Expertise and not Mastery. |
|
03-10-2021, 12:01 PM | #16 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Pacheco, California
|
Re: Brawling once again
Taking the Brawling talent indicates some dedication to HTH.
A reasonable balance point would be to apply the dirty fighting bonus once (at most) to each combat. After that point everybody is warned and the bonus no longer applies.
__________________
-HJC |
03-10-2021, 01:03 PM | #17 | ||
Join Date: May 2015
|
Re: Brawling once again
* "Dirty" Brawling giving +2 damage in deadly combat is too good. However it seems to me that there is a RAW cure for this if read/remember the Taking Prisoners section of the rules (ITL p. 126), where it says, in part:
Quote:
So I don't think the +2 damage would be usable for lethal combat, which is good because it's only 1 (if you don't stack the usual unarmed bonus) or zero (if you do stack it) damage points shy of a dagger in HTH, which I'd hope would be obviously wrong and/or undesirable. * The line: Quote:
. . . hcobb tangent section: * I don't think gargoyles should be able to use brawling to get +1 (let alone +2) to their 2d claw attack, which clearly is meant as the main lethal attack all gargoyles know. It would be silly to mention that attack as 2d damage if pretty much every gargoyle should really have Brawling and so do 2d+2. * Yes fine (and magic, Expertise, etc) bonuses can give you a more powerful dagger, but that's off-topic. The point is that ordinary daggers should be more dangerous than fists. |
||
03-10-2021, 02:14 PM | #18 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Pacheco, California
|
Re: Brawling once again
The Summon Myrmidon spell apparently brings a warrior competent in all weapons, but without Brawling.
ITL 122 gives him a (ST 12) punch of 1d-2 and a HTH attack of 1d-1 and a dagger attack in HTH of 1d+1 Wizard Boardgame rules page 19 gives a punch damage of 1d-3 Melee Boardgame rules page 18 gives a HTH attack of at most 1d-2 while the dagger is 1d+2 ITL bare handed damage is one more point than Melee/Wizard, plus talents, while the dagger is nerfed down a point. So just use the ITL122 table as the HTH damage while adjacent strikes are one point less.
__________________
-HJC |
03-10-2021, 07:15 PM | #19 | ||
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Boston area
|
Re: Brawling once again
Quote:
The solution of getting rid of the dirty fighting bonus in lethal combat only goes so far. Without it (but with the usual +1 bonus in HTH), a brawler is still within one point of a dagger's damage. I think that, in the end, I'd accept being within one point. An ST 10 fighter normally does 1d-2 in HTH per RAW. With brawling, he does 1d-1 HTH if fighting "clean". With a dagger, he does 1d. Per RAW, he also does that with brawling if he fights dirty. So, if we just take out the "fighting dirty" option in lethal combat and reserve it for subduing, the brawler averages 2.5 damage per hit while the guy with a dagger does 3.5 on average. That's a pretty big jump. I can live with a brawler getting one point less than a dagger. Equal was just too much to take. Quote:
|
||
03-10-2021, 07:17 PM | #20 |
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Haubstadt, IN
|
Re: Brawling once again
My interpretation is that both Brawling and Carousing seem to apply to bars and taverns, or situations where PCs are "in an evening of revelry". You have to be in a non-lethal brawl to use the Brawling talent. Somewhere along the line it is determined that the fight is "just a fist fight". In this case nobody goes below strength zero, unless someone uses Dirty Fighting and takes it away from non-lethal (but remains a brawl).
If it is not a brawl, no brawling talent. |
|
|