How to run a Trader Game

[ericthered]

Originally Posted by whswhs

I've run multiple campaigns with trading as an activity, from my first GURPS campaign (set in the Uplift universe) to my current fantasy campaign (set in a bronze age world). Characteristically, the players stop being enthusiastic about the buying and selling and expenses after the first voyage. They still like the contact with different cultures, and they take a mild interest in the goods available, but they really prefer to just handwave the profit and loss statement.

Moving this from the space opera thread.

I don't know how to run a traders game. I haven't figured out what the core mission is, and so often I hear people doing things with the game that are anything but "trading". If I was to play in one I wouldn't know what to do other than fight off the occasional pirate.

So what is the core activity of a trader's game? How do you make it interesting? Help me understand this play mode.

[trooper6]

When I ran GURPS Traveller: Interstellar Wars, the players were traders. It was their first trading run into Vilani space.

So they'd arrive on a planet. They'd need to find a way to get access to the black market on that planet. Sometimes that would be an adventure in an of itself. They had usually 2-3 days on that planet before leaving. There usually some adventure going on. Sometimes related to trade (we want you to go to the interior and capture some rare wild animal and then deliver it to this other planet), sometimes not. Sometimes they are tempted with smuggling something illegal. Of course their trading business also involves carrying passengers...and passengers also can have adventures connected to them (they are refugees on the run, they are criminals, they are someone other people want to assassinate). There are rival traders who try to steal the highest paying passengers. Then out in space there are space customs...which is usually fine...unless you have some illegal cargo/passengers.

I just looked into Traveller adventures to get inspiration. I suppose you could also look into Firefly for inspiration as well.

[Stormcrow]

A trading game is one in which the characters deal with obstacles that impede their ability to trade. It is not about the actual transaction. There may be some financial concern—e.g., this cargo is too risky for the amount we'd be paid—but it is secondary.

That's not to say the players don't want to profit. You shouldn't run a trading game without letting players actually keep and invest the profits. It's that profits are the reward, not the central conflict.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Stormcrow

A trading game is one in which the characters deal with obstacles that impede their ability to trade. It is not about the actual transaction. There may be some financial concern—e.g., this cargo is too risky for the amount we'd be paid—but it is secondary.

That's not to say the players don't want to profit. You shouldn't run a trading game without letting players actually keep and invest the profits. It's that profits are the reward, not the central conflict.

My point is, I think, that in a kill and loot campaign, the gold pieces and magic items are the reward, not the central conflict, which is fighting monsters and disarming traps; but the players still want to keep track of both the activity ("how many hit points do I still have?") and the reward ("how many gold pieces is it worth?"). But when I run trading games, the players aren't usually very interested in either the details of how much they paid for things and how much they sold them for, or figuring the profit that is their theoretical reward. So the "game" aspect of trading is less exciting than the "game" aspect of killing and looting; the players are in it almost entirely for the roleplaying. And it's kind of tedious for the GM to keep track of gross profits and cargo stowage and operating expenses when the players have no interest.

I don't think that the answer is to provide a more detailed and exact model for figuring profit and loss. I think if there is an answer, it's to provide a much simpler set of rolls, one that doesn't require elaborate record-keeping at all.

[Rindis]

The 'classic' trading game is one of the implied campaign frames from the original Traveller: You have a ship, and it has 10-40 years of loan payments left before it's paid for. You need to make enough money to pay the loan each month, as well as all the operating costs (maintenance, overhaul, fuel, berthing fees...). Going from planet to planet with trade goods should take care of the bulk of costs, and adventures are when you need extra cash in a hurry (like ferrying that old man and kid who are too-eager to get off planet).

So the real base idea is that ship becomes the stick of continual expenses, with any adventures beyond regular trading offering the 'carrot' of money for the main hook.

[ericthered]

Originally Posted by trooper6

So they'd arrive on a planet ... black market ... smuggling something illegal...are refugees ... are criminals ... want to assassinate... illegal cargo/passengers.

This is one of the things that causes a huge disconnect for me. When someone says a "traders" campaign, it seems to often mean a "criminal" campaign. Is this a fair assumption? Are most traders games about folks more or less on the outs with the law? is "smugglers" or "illicit dealers" a better name for this type of game?

Originally Posted by Stormcrow

A trading game is one in which the characters deal with obstacles that impede their ability to trade. It is not about the actual transaction. There may be some financial concern—e.g., this cargo is too risky for the amount we'd be paid—but it is secondary.

Ok, that's somewhat helpful. Thus they need to be in a business or an area where there are lots of obstacles to making transactions. hmm

Originally Posted by Culture20

It could be as simple as "one character is a farmer with a new crop of barley, another is a blacksmith, a third is an expert traveller/scout, and the fourth owns a large wagon and has heard 'Greendale to the South is paying extra for goods because of the Violet King' or as complex as a scheme to recycle a truckload of aluminum cans in Michigan. Brigands, serendipity, and car thieves throwing golfs clubs could be complications, along with organized crime asking for protection money, monsters, a superhero fight nearby your store, forcing you to take cover or help injured customers.

Now, all that happening really breaks my sense of disbelief. One or two instances might happen, but it feels wrong to have more than a few. I'd really struggle to run either of the above campaigns.

Originally Posted by whswhs

...So the "game" aspect of trading is less exciting than the "game" aspect of killing and looting; the players are in it almost entirely for the roleplaying.

So then what do players need to do to make the game work? Is it all just about exploring and getting into trouble?

Originally Posted by Rindis

So the real base idea is that ship becomes the stick of continual expenses, with any adventures beyond regular trading offering the 'carrot' of money for the main hook.

So you have a bunch of folks who don't really own the ship trying to find ways to make a buck on the side. With the implication that this will get them into all sorts of trouble. Hmm.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by whswhs

My point is, I think, that in a kill and loot campaign, the gold pieces and magic items are the reward, not the central conflict, which is fighting monsters and disarming traps; but the players still want to keep track of both the activity ("how many hit points do I still have?") and the reward ("how many gold pieces is it worth?"). But when I run trading games, the players aren't usually very interested in either the details of how much they paid for things and how much they sold them for, or figuring the profit that is their theoretical reward. So the "game" aspect of trading is less exciting than the "game" aspect of killing and looting; the players are in it almost entirely for the roleplaying. And it's kind of tedious for the GM to keep track of gross profits and cargo stowage and operating expenses when the players have no interest.

I don't think that the answer is to provide a more detailed and exact model for figuring profit and loss. I think if there is an answer, it's to provide a much simpler set of rolls, one that doesn't require elaborate record-keeping at all.

It really seems to me that the obvious answer would be not playing a trader game with players who find trade uninteresting. Is there some reason to want to make it happen despite this?

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

It really seems to me that the obvious answer would be not playing a trader game with players who find trade uninteresting. Is there some reason to want to make it happen despite this?

The setting mostly.
Trade is a viable reason for traveling and interaction in almost any setting. Going in and killing things and looting the bodies, not so much.
So a merchant based campaign makes a good background or reason for the PCs to be there. However it cant be all about the accounting or boredom will ensue.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

It really seems to me that the obvious answer would be not playing a trader game with players who find trade uninteresting. Is there some reason to want to make it happen despite this?

But the thing is, the players chose the campaigns in question, and in the fantasy campaign, they choose to play trade pioneers; I didn't tell them, "Okay, you're all going to be partners in owning a merchant ship."

And this is at least twice I've run campaigns where the PCs were a merchant ship's crew, and they were almost completely different player groups; only one person played in both campaigns. Twice isn't a conclusive trend, but it may be more than just happenstance.

[thrash]

Originally Posted by whswhs

I don't think that the answer is to provide a more detailed and exact model for figuring profit and loss. I think if there is an answer, it's to provide a much simpler set of rolls, one that doesn't require elaborate record-keeping at all.

I did an article for the old JTAS Online called "Cash and Carry," that abstracted the trade system in Far Trader down to a few rolls. The intent was to take the burden of actual bookkeeping out of a trader campaign, if the group was just using trade as an framework for adventuring.

I seem to have lost my back-up copy, but it should be available on the JTAS CDROM from Far Future Enterprises.