Improving through study question

[brianfb]

Originally Posted by Plane

Should that apply to other purchases too, like spending 2000 hours lifting weights to buy +1 to ST?

The results of weight lifting is easily measurable, and anyone who has lifted weights could tell you that 2000 hours for a single raise is insane.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by brianfb

The results of weight lifting is easily measurable, and anyone who has lifted weights could tell you that 2000 hours for a single raise is insane.

Depends which raise you're talking about. Going from 0 hours training to 2,000 hours training will likely produce a substantial increase (quite possibly multiple points of ST), going from 10,000 hours to 12,000 hours won't.

[brianfb]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Depends which raise you're talking about. Going from 0 hours training to 2,000 hours training will likely produce a substantial increase (quite possibly multiple points of ST), going from 10,000 hours to 12,000 hours won't.

It's silly really, doing more than 1 or 2 hours in a day is actually counterproductive, as is doing it every day. Let's say you go super hard core and are lifting 8 hours in a week. That is almost 5 years of religious work to see any results at all.

If you are new and followed that schedule you would see 20 to 30,% improvement in less than 6 weeks, or 48 hours. 2000 hours doesbt pass a Smell test. Neither does 200 to learn the very basics of a simple skill as riding hiking.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by brianfb

That is almost 5 years of religious work to see any results at all.

So? Improvement plateauing is pretty well established.

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by brianfb

INeither does 200 to learn the very basics of a simple skill as riding hiking.

The 'very basics' of Riding and Hiking are 'can use at default', which many urban westerners these days realistically can't.

Note that for someone with a point in Riding and a point in Guns, that single point in Riding gives them Guns -1 to shoot whilst mounted. Also, that single point in Riding gives your average DX10 person Riding-9, which is enough to give a 15- (Riding-9 +2 for the manoeuvre (B396) +4 for a mundane task roll (B345)) to get a horse to jump, perform tight turns, etc., in a normal riding environment (as opposed to in the middle of a battle). This is not a trivial level of skill.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by brianfb

The results of weight lifting is easily measurable, and anyone who has lifted weights could tell you that 2000 hours for a single raise is insane.

It's only 200 hours for a pt in Lifting and that can get you plus 10% to your lifts. A pt of ST is a _lot_ more than a simple increase in the amount of weight you can lift.

[AlexanderHowl]

Originally Posted by Rupert

The 'very basics' of Riding and Hiking are 'can use at default', which many urban westerners these days realistically can't.

Note that for someone with a point in Riding and a point in Guns, that single point in Riding gives them Guns -1 to shoot whilst mounted. Also, that single point in Riding gives your average DX10 person Riding-9, which is enough to give a 15- (Riding-9 +2 for the manoeuvre (B396) +4 for a mundane task roll (B345)) to get a horse to jump, perform tight turns, etc., in a normal riding environment (as opposed to in the middle of a battle). This is not a trivial level of skill.

As someone who grew up with horses, a tight turn is not a routine action. It requires a decent amount of skill to convince a horse to do so (and to not cause the horse to fall and roll on you). The other actions are really only routine within a riding ring, competitive riding and/or long distance riding is different story entirely. And no riding instructor worth their salt would let an individual with only 200 hours of instruction go off without supervision.

[Jareth Valar]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

Only if you want to implement such a House Rule. It directly contradicts the Rules As Written. You get the effects of 1 character point for 200 hours of study (with a teacher) _or_ when you spend an actual Character Point. Requiring both is fairly punitive House Rule.

We've been doing 10% of time to raise with a point and/or intense/dramatic use in game. Makes sense for us, but YMMV.

[Donny Brook]

Originally Posted by Anthony

So? Improvement plateauing is pretty well established.

You have to go UP a bit before you can plateau. 2000 hours before you climb to the plateau seems wrong.

[Donny Brook]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

As someone who grew up with horses, a tight turn is not a routine action. It requires a decent amount of skill to convince a horse to do so (and to not cause the horse to fall and roll on you). The other actions are really only routine within a riding ring, competitive riding and/or long distance riding is different story entirely. And no riding instructor worth their salt would let an individual with only 200 hours of instruction go off without supervision.

Interesting. You can get a private pilot license in Canada with 100 hours of training (45 in the air).