[OOC] Shattered Magic -- GURPS 4e High magic fantasy

[BigPhut]

Originally Posted by younglorax

@BigPhut

The concept looks great! Only one problem I see: True Faith can't actually be god-powered. However, it is perfectly plausible that a ritual of your religion is magical (probably not coincidentally), and has this effect.

I haven't crunched the numbers on your sheet, and I'm not sure why you have Will + 2 at a cost of 6CP.

Religions:
Eastern religions tend to have actual entities of some sort (gods) rather than being animists. There are a few religions practiced in the region, and their practitioners are usually not hostile towards each other (unless they have any other reason to be). Also, given that nearly all the religions are polytheistic, it is possible to view gods from different religions as members of a single pan-pantheon, which aids in mutual acceptance.

One of the more common religions worships deities that are related to animals, and their temples will often have some of those animals around. (Bees are related with the god of the harvest, rat snakes with health, cows with fertility, and a fairly wide variety of other animals, with varying numbers of worshippers).

If that particular religion doesn't appeal to you, feel free to make one up. It will probably be fine, but run it by me before you put too much work into it, just to be sure.

Alright so I've changed the error with Will and re-balanced the points, and i've also written up an equipment list for him.

Regarding the religions and true faith thing. He comes from an order of priests that belong to a denomination of Cennanism. They worship the eagle (gaurdian and healing) and the bear (a symbol of noble warriors). As well as being priests the orders memebers either take the path of the healer, if they are magically gifted or otherwise the warrior however both still learn parts of both trades and worship each of the gods equally. The members of the church often carry symobols and are sometimes tattoed to represent their faith. Father Boadeus has a bear tattoed on his right forearm and carries the symbol of the eagles claw cast in silver, a blessed (i.e enchanted) symbol that wards evil from those who wear it as long as they keep their faith, on a chain around his neck. Practioners of the fathers order use rituals to bond themselves with the animals they worship, ocassionally priests will learn more intricate prayers and learn how to control them, this is more common with the Brothers of healing as they are the most magically gifted.

[younglorax]

@OldSam
Welcome to the thread! If you've fixed the Will thing, your character sheet as you sent it to me is totally fine.

@SillyHari
That's true!

@BigPhut
That sounds good.

The name of the religion is Cennanism (pronounced with a "ch" sound; it's an archaic word that has maintained its old spelling).

One specific thing you can change, but don't have to. For the bear-worshippers, it would be slightly more in keeping with most of the other denominations if the priests either had "prayers" (spells) to get the bears to protect them, talismans that kept them from attacking (their own followers, anyway), or some other way that the bears could have an -- at least symbolic -- practical purpose. But, like I said, it's fine as written; the religion is not terribly unified, and as long as your worshippers aren't deliberately sacrificing themselves to the bears, it won't be seen as significantly divergent.

[hari]

Alright, this is where I flesh out the character in numbers. I need to get to sleep, so a description in words will have to wait for tomorrow. I also have several places that I want to call to your attention to be sure everything is kosher.

14 years old
5' 1"
104 lbs

Attributes 82
Advantages and Perks 76
Skills 71
Disadvantages and Quirks -55
Total 175

Attributes [82]
ST 9 [-10]
DX 12 [40]
IQ 10
HT 12 [20]
HP 11 [4]
Will 12 (can be used for magic +100%) [20]
Per 10
FP 13 [3]
Damage (will redo later)
Basic Speed 6
Basic Move 7 [5]
Basic Lift (will redo later)

Advantages and Perks [76]
Magery 0 [5]
Magery 2 [10]
-(only while asleep, 30% of the time, -30% to cost as per Powers p. 99)
-(uncontrollable, safe, -10% to cost) (unreliable, 14-, -10% to cost)
Path Adept [10]
-(no need for ritual space)
Talent (Athletic) 2 [10]
-(Acrobatics, Body Sense, Dancing, Jumping, Running)
Talent (Street Urchin) 2 [10]
-(Filch, Pan Handling, Scrounging, Streetwise, Urban Survival, Observation)
Pitiable [5]
Gizmos 1 [5]
Enhanced Parry (Staff) [5]
Unusual Background (Dream Magic) [10]
Cultural Familiarity (East Verold) [1]
Perks [5]
-Androgynous
-Weapon Bond (Staff)
-Alternative Default Path
--(Atral Projection can be cast as if it were part of the Path of Dreams)
-Deep Sleeper
-Combat Vaulting

Disadvantages and Quirks [-55]
Social Stigma (minor) [-5]
Easy to Read [-5]
-(half as effective, -2 not -4, -50%)
Poor [-15]
Literacy (Accented) [-1]
Compulsive Generosity [-10]
-(resists on a 6-, +20% cost of living, +100%)
Phantom Images [-5]
Phantom Voices [-5]
Wounded [-5]
Quirks [-4]
-No path can be higher than Dreams
-Holds books in awe
-Loves to eat fruit
-"Dreams are invading the waking world"

Skills [71]
Urban/ General Skills [30]
Acrobatics 14* (DX) [4]
Area Knowledge (Quanton) 10 (IQ) [1]
Climbing 12 (DX) [2]
Escape 10 (DX-2) [1]
Fast Talk 8* (IQ) [2]
Filch 14* (DX) [2]
Jumping 15* (DX+1) [2]
Hold Out 9 (IQ-1) [1]
Pan Handling 13* (IQ+1) [2]
Running 14* (HT) [2]
Scrounging 14* (Per+2) [4]
Stealth 12 (DX) [2]
Street Wise 12* (IQ) [2]
Theology 8 (IQ-2) [1]
Urban Survival 12* (Per) [2]

Wildnerness Skills [4]
Boating (unpowered) 12 (DX) [1]
Mimicry (bird calls) 9 (IQ-1) [2]
Survival (river, stream) 9 (Per-1) [1)
Swimming 12 (HT) [1]

Magic Skills and Rituals [23]
Dreaming 11 (Will-1) [2]
Path of Dreams 11 (Will-1) [4]
Path of Knowledge 11 (Will-1) [4]
Path of Luck 9 (Will-3) [1]
Path of Nature 9 (Will-3) [1]
Path of Cunning 9 (Will-3) [1]
Path of Spirits 9 (Will-3) [1]
Locate 11* (Knowledge-2) [3]
Dream Sanctum 13* (Dreams) [3]
Astral Projection 11* (Dreams-2) [3]

Combat Skills and Techniques [14]
Brawling 12 (DX) [1]
Knife 12 (DX) [1]
Throw Knives 13 (DX+1) [2]
Staff 13 (DX+1) [4]
Sweep (Staff) 15 [3]
Disarm (Staff) 15 [3]



Okay, now time to call attention to the (several) places in which I may have gone way too far in taking liberties.

First of all, the character is based on using Dreaming and Willpower as a base for path magic instead of intelligence. Also, I think the modified magery needs to get your approval, just to be safe. The only while sleeping thing is a little strange. I bought less sleep just to round out the numbers instead of having it be -95%, but that's your call really. I suppose it's a little broken considering that I can always sleep for more than 7 hours. You'r call on that one. Uncontrollable is really just my way of encouraging you to take control of my character's magic at any time. I realize that ritual magic isn't intended to be used by characters who are too unconscious to... well, do a ritual. So I bought path adept to ignore the need for ritual space. I'm thinking that my character arranges nice things around the bed before going to sleep (random trinkets found through out the day, fruit) and uses that for the material element. Hey, creating the right mood is what it's all about isn't it? But still, that's kind of lame compared to a real ritual. However, I don't have any problems in terms of time used. I thought that, by and large, spending double the normal amount of time on a ritual could make up for lame material components. But again, this is all quite different from what is intended, so it's all subject to your decision. The other big iffy thing is the perk that says I can use astral projection with the path of dreams. I thought there was a precedent for that somewhere, but I couldn't find it. Perks are made to break rules in a small and isolated way though, so I thought to try it. It's also something that I feel fits the character quite well. I thought it would be fun to be able to scout around the camp in dreamform while everyone sleeps.

The talents, Basic says that they should be double checked by the GM, right? Also, I messed around with easy to read without remembering what the name for what I modified with it was or what the page reference was. And I also had the thought of trying to replace flashbacks with a 5 point visual version of something like phantom voices. It fits the idea in my head better. But again, it is probably less debilitating for the same amount of points and not by the book. So it's your call.

That's all of that.
I need to sleep.
I'll write it up in words tomorrow but I have to say that I tried as hard as I could to explain the character with the numbers.

[Wild Bill]

@Wild Bill
I didn't get a chance to look it over thuroughly yet, but I have a couple questions:

Does Style: Pak Hok [3] count as a UB type thing for Exotic Hand Strike (Karate)-13 [2], Counterattack-12 [4], and Striking ST 2 [10]? If it's in MA as such, then that should be fine.

Also, what are EHS and Counterattack, anyway?

Pak Hok is a fighting style listed in Martial Arts and the Techniques are all listed under the heading (none of them from the Cinematic Techniques listed). I thought that choosing one from MA would be easier than creating a new one, and Pak Hok was closest to what I was looking for.

Counter Attack (H)
Default: prerequisite skill-5
Prerequisite: Any unarmed combat or Melee Weapon skill; cannot exceep prerequisite skill.

..."You can only attempt it [Counterattack] on your turn immediately following a successful active defense.... If you blocked or parried, the Counterattack doesn't have to use the hand(s) you used to defend, although it can if you wish."
"Roll against Counterattack to hit. Your foe is at -2 to Parry, or to his resistance roll if you tried a grappling move that uses a Quick Contest (e.g. takedown), or at -1 to Block or Dodge. If you hit, your attack inflicts its usual damage. You can use another technique as your counterattack...."

(Martial Arts, 70)


Exotic Hand Strike (A)
Default: Karate-1
Prerequisite: Karate; cannot exceed prerequisite skill+5.

"Certain hand strikes use unusual striking surfaces; the edge of the hand, a single portruding knuckle, a claw shaped fist, etc. These do extra damage to fleshy or fragile targets at the cost of being much more vulnerable to injury when striking a hard surface such as armor or bone. Roll against Exotic Hand Strike to hit. Standard hit location penalties apply. Damage is thrust crushing plus Karate bonuses. Hurting Yourself (p. B379) applies if your target has any DR - not just DR 3+."

(Martial Arts, 71)

[BigPhut]

Originally Posted by younglorax

@BigPhut
That sounds good.

The name of the religion is Cennanism (pronounced with a "ch" sound; it's an archaic word that has maintained its old spelling).

One specific thing you can change, but don't have to. For the bear-worshippers, it would be slightly more in keeping with most of the other denominations if the priests either had "prayers" (spells) to get the bears to protect them, talismans that kept them from attacking (their own followers, anyway), or some other way that the bears could have an -- at least symbolic -- practical purpose. But, like I said, it's fine as written; the religion is not terribly unified, and as long as your worshippers aren't deliberately sacrificing themselves to the bears, it won't be seen as significantly divergent.

I've looked that over, the description has been changed to suit this, and there is now a perk listed on his character sheet to represent the changes.

[Captain-Captain]

Originally Posted by younglorax

Point total: 175cp, but at least 35cp must be put into background skills and advantages.
Disad cap: -50cp or so, as a guideline. The only hard and fast rule is it must be playable, and not overly disruptive.
Base TL: 3

Clarification requested: Is this 175 + 50 +5 quirks (total postive maximum 230 CP] or 175 +45 +5 quirks for a total of 225 maximum positive points?

[Captain-Captain]

And a couple of questions 1) What is the native language here? 1a) Are there any other languages here we should consider learning? 2) What is the Native Cultural Familiarity here? 2a) as for 1a.

[younglorax]

I'm taking a break for writing my last undergraduate paper ever, so I'm not going to answer everything right now.

@Captain-Captain

Point Totals:
I suppose it's -50CP disads, -5CP quirks, for a sum of -55.

However, I'm fine with more than 5 quirks if you don't have many disads. Also, as mentioned above, the -50CP of disads is a guideline.

So, it does come to a sume of 230CP to spend, if you take -50CP of disads and 5CP

Language and Culture
For convenience, I'm using the convention of sayin everyone on the continent speaks the same language. The language is called Veroldian. There may be dialectal differences, but those will be entirely for flavor.

Cultural differences are going to be downplayed for game mechanics. They are essentially 0-point features. If your character has spent much time interacting with people in a region, he automatically acquires that cultural familiarity. If not, then he has a -1 penalty (instead of the normal -3) until he does. This means most characters will start with only one cultural familiarity, but by the end it could be that every character has all three.

relevant Cultural Familiarities: East Verold, West Verold, Quanton

@ BigPhut

That's perkfect.

@ Wild Bill

Those techniques seem fine. I'm not familiar with using Striking ST as an adaptation to physiologically normal humans. Is it discussed in MA, or has it been OK'd by martial arts/physiology experts on the boards?

[OldSam]

hey, ok here comes my full character-build now... ;)

+++ edit: spent new cp and added horse template +++

Name: Arlen Siler
Race: Human Height: 5' 8" Hair: Blond, Straight, Short
Gender: Male Weight: 128 lb Eyes: Blue
Age: 25 Skin: Tan Religion: Spirits of Nature
CP: 165 (1 unspent)

Short Background:
Arlen usually works and lives outdoor using his magical abilities to support his mundane knowledge and skills.
When he was young he was introduced in the secrets of Magic by his grandfather who was the only real Mage of the village and some other older men and women the nearby region who formed a circle to share and develop their knowledge and abilities. It soon showed that Arlen has a special talent for magical shapeshifting into animal forms but the members of the small local circle had only limited knowledge about this. Anyway he learned a lot about the principles of magic and nature and together with his grandfather he studied different animals and managed to be quite good in some basic forms. As his grandfather died in later years, he decided to leave the village to make his living as a Hunter and to search for a new teacher for his special needs.
After two years of nomad life he casually started to work as a guide for travelling merchants or other treks to help them out with his mundane and magical outdoor-knowledge. Also with getting more experienced with shapeshifting in his wolf-form he clearly improved his skills as a hunter.
Then, sometimes ago he found an older experienced Mage living in the Mountains, who was willing to teach him some of his nature-aspected Magical Skills and who finally could help Arlen to greatly improve his shapeshifting abilities. He also tried to teach him some basic knowledge about healing magic but at some point it wasn't possible to make further progress and the old man told Arlen that something strange is happening with magic but he doesn't know what it is. Arlen was motivated to learn the secrets of healing and is now interested in finding out more about the mysterious circumstances that prevent him from doing so.
Also he generally likes travelling and seeing other parts of the world. His current way of life makes it easy for him to be mobile for long times.

Attributes:
ST: 9 HP: 11
DX: 11 WILL: 12
IQ: 13 PER: 13
HT: 11 FP: 14

Basic Speed: 5
Basic Move: 5
Dodge: 9

Advantages / Disadvantages:
Claustrophobia (Enclosed Spaces) (CR: 15 (Almost All The Time).) [-7]
Code of Honor [-1]
Combat Reflexes [15]
Demophobia (Crowds) (CR: 15 (Almost All The Time).) [-7]
Distractible [-1]
Get Mental Animal Traits in Forms [-5]
Habit [-1]
Hard to Kill 2 (Stays in all forms, +30%.) [5]
Hard to Subdue 2 (Stays in all forms, +30%.) [5]
Innumerate [-5]
Likes life in nature: sleeping outdoor; going hunting alone etc. [-1]
Magery 3 [35] {including Magic Sight from Magery 0}
Pacifism: Cannot Harm Innocents [-10]
Responsive [-1]
Truthfulness (CR: 12 (Quite Often).) [-5]
Wealth (Struggling) [-10]

Skills: [34]
Animal Handling (Equines) 13 (IQ+0) [2]
Brawling 14 (DX+3) [8]
Cooking 12 (IQ-1) [1]
Diplomacy 12 (IQ-1) [2]
First Aid/TL3 14 (IQ+1) [2]
Knife 11 (DX+0) [1]
Leadership 12 (IQ-1) [1]
Leatherworking 11 (DX+0) [1]
Naturalist/TL3 (Earthlike) 12 (IQ-1) [2]
Navigation/TL3 (Land) 12 (IQ-1) [1]
Riding (Equine) 11 (DX+0) [2]
Stealth 12 (DX+1) [4]
Survival (Mountain) 12 (Per-1) [1]
Survival (Woodlands) 13 (Per+0) [2]
Tactics 11 (IQ-2) [1]
Teamster (Equines) 12 (IQ-1) [1]
Tracking 13 (Per+0) [2]
Traps/TL3 13 (IQ+0) [2]
Veterinary/TL3 11 (IQ-2) [1]

Spells: [43]
Animal Control (Mammals) 14 (IQ-2) [1]
Apportation 14 (IQ-2) [1]
Beast Soother 14 (IQ-2) [1]
Beast Speech 15 (IQ-1) [2]
Beast Summoning 14 (IQ-2) [1]
Complex Illusion 14 (IQ-2) [1]
Detect Magic 14 (IQ-2) [1]
Haste 14 (IQ-2) [1]
Illusion Disguise 14 (IQ-2) [1]
Lend Energy 14 (IQ-2) [1]
Lend Vitality 14 (IQ-2) [1]
Master 14 (IQ-2) [1]
Missile Shield 14 (IQ-2) [1]
Pathfinder 14 (IQ-2) [1]
Perfect Illusion 14 (IQ-2) [1]
Persuasion 14 (IQ-2) [1]
Recover Energy 15 (IQ-1) [2]
Seek Food 14 (IQ-2) [1]
Seek Plant 14 (IQ-2) [1]
Sense Emotion 14 (IQ-2) [1]
Sense Foes 14 (IQ-2) [1]
Shapeshifting (Ant) 13 (IQ-3) [1]
Shapeshifting (Bouto Dolphin) 13 (IQ-3) [1]
Shapeshifting (Cat) 13 (IQ-3) [1]
Shapeshifting (Eagle) 15 (IQ-1) [4]
Shapeshifting (Grizzly Bear) 15 (IQ-1) [4]
Shapeshifting (Horse) 13 (IQ-3) [1]
Shapeshifting (Raven) 13 (IQ-3) [1]
Shapeshifting (Wolf) 15 (IQ-1) [4]
Shield 14 (IQ-2) [1]
Simple Illusion 14 (IQ-2) [1]
Sound 14 (IQ-2) [1]

Equipment: ($493, 38,91 lb)
Backpack, Small $60 3 lb x1
Blanket $20 4 lb x1
Candle, Tallow (Lasts 12 hours) $5 1 lb x5
Cord, 3/16", 10 yards (Supports 90 lbs.) $1 0,5 lb x1
Fishhooks & Line $50 0,01 lb x1
Grindstone $0 0,1 lb x1
Personal Basics (Includes Survival Gear like Flintstone and Personal Utensils) $5 1 lb x1
Sling $20 0,5 lb x2
Tent, 1-Man (Includes ropes; no poles needed) $50 5 lb x1
Torch (Burns for 1 hour) $3 1 lb x1
Traveler's Rations (One meal) $2 0,5 lb x3
Wineskin $10 0,25 lb x1
Water, 1 pint $0 2 lb x1
Boots $80 3 lb x1
Cloth Armor $30 6 lb x1
Cloth Gloves $15 0 lb x1
Leather Belt $5 0,25 lb x1
Scabbard, Knife $3 0,3 lb x1
Large Knife $40 1 lb x1
Leather Jacket $50 4 lb x1

Animal Forms: (just the beginning... :p)

According to Younglorax's ruling, Arlen's mental (dis)-advantages and attributes stay in animal forms and
he also has a disadvantage of gaining the animal mental traits (like bestiary) while being in their form.

Grizzly Bear:
SM+1; 800lbs

ST: 19 HP: 19
DX: 11 Will: 12
IQ: 13 Per: 13
HT: 13 HT: 13

Speed: 6
Move: 8
Dodge: 10

Blunt Claws; Combat Reflexes ('inherited'); DR 2; Semi-Upright;
Sharp Teeth; Temperature Tolerance 2; Hard to Kill: 2; Hard to Subdue: 2;
Wild Animal (Bestial; Cannot Speak; Hidebound); Bad Temper (9);
Phobias etc. from Human Form;

Dmg Claws (C): 2d cr; Dmg Teeth (C): 2d-2 cut

Brawling 14 (DX+3)


Timber Wolf:
SM 0; 120 lbs

ST: 10 HP: 10
DX: 12 Will: 12
IQ: 13 Per: 13
HT: 12 FP: 12

Speed: 6
Move: 9
Dodge: 10

Discriminatory Smell; DR 1; Night Vision 2;
Combat Reflexes ('inherited'); Quadruped; Sharp Teeth;
Temperature Tolerance 1; Hard to Kill: 2; Hard to Subdue: 2;
Wild Animal (Bestial; Cannot Speak; Hidebound);
Phobias etc. from Human Form

Dmg Teeth (C): 1d-3 cut

Brawling 15 (DX+3) [8]
Tracking 13 (Per+0) [2]
Stealth 13 (DX+1) [4]


Cat:
SM-3; 10 lbs

ST: 4 HP: 4
DX: 14 Will: 12
IQ: 13 Per: 13
HT: 10: FP: 10

Speed: 6
Dodge: 10
Move: 10

Catfall; Combat Reflexes; Night Vision 5;
Quadruped; Sharp Claws; Sharp Teeth;
Hard to Kill: 2; Hard to Subdue: 2;
Domestic Animal;

Dmg Teeth (C): 1d-6 cut
Dmg Claws (C): 1d-6 cut

Brawling 17 (DX+3) [8]
Tracking 13 (Per+0) [2]
Stealth 15 (DX+1) [4]

Eagle:
SM: -2; 10 lbs.

ST: 5 HP: 5
DX: 12 Will: 12
IQ: 13 Per: 13
HT: 10 FP: 10

Speed: 5.5
Move: Ground 2, Air 18 (36)
Dodge: 8
Parry: 11(8)

Telescopic Vision

Beak (16): 1d-4 pi+ (Reach C)
Talons (16): 1d-4 imp (Reach C)

Aerobatics-12
Flight-15
Brawling 15 (DX+3) [8]
Tracking 13 (Per+0) [2]
Stealth 13 (DX+1) [4]


Horse:
SM: +1 (3 hexes); 1400 lbs., 'Cavalry Horse'

ST: 22 HP: 22
DX: 9 Will: 12
IQ: 13 Per: 13
HT: 11 FP: 11

Speed: 5
Move: 8 (Ground Speed 16)
Dodge: 9

Combat Reflexes; Domestic Animal; Enhanced Move 1;
Hooves; Peripheral Vision; Quadruped; Weak Bite

[younglorax]

I'm done with college! Go me! For you guys, this means I actually have time to look closely at character sheets.

@hari
Summary:
totally fine: Magery modifications, Astral Projection
problematic: Talents, HP & ST, Magic based on Will, some skill calculations


Talents:
I'm not buying the Athletic talent. It seems like that should pretty much be DX. If you can explain to me what sets those apart from Brawling, Sports, Lifting, and Hiking, then I may change my mind.

Street Urchin seems OK, with one condition: you can only get your bonus to Filch if you can choose between several target stores -- the Talent doesn't give you quicker hands, it gives you a better sense of who you can steal from. You could also add Observation, if you like.

Magery:
That seems reasonable, and I'm fine with using Ritual Magic with your sleeping thing. I'm going to say that you have to set out your little trinkets, and you have to be deep asleep. I'm going to make you fail a series of sense rolls or something to get sleep you don't need it -- we can work out the details if it comes up.

ST, HP, & age:
These don't really jive with each other. The age goes fine with the weight and height, but the ST doesn't and the HP really doesn't. HP is roughly correlated to mass, so with that HP you should be unusually big for an adult. And that ST is average for an adult, but you're shorter and lighter and younger than an adult.

Something there needs to be adjusted, at least a little.

Astral Projection as Path of Dreams:
This doesn't seem abusive, and it does seem in keeping with the sort of thing Perks do. I'll allow it.

Using Will as the base for Rituals:
Thematically, this is just fine. However, it does seem to present a balance issue to me. If you're willing to buy Will with a +200% enhancement "Usable for Spells", then that's fine. If that seems like a rip-off (which it very well may be) we can maybe figure out a fairer way to judge it.

Flashbacks and Phantom Voices:
Sheesh, this is one messed up kid. Anyway, if you want to use your "Phantom Images" idea, you could treat it as Phantom Voices but with the special effect that it's visual instead of audio, provided you can come up with a way to rollplay interacting with those images that's likely to result in a reaction penalty.

Skill Calculations:
How did you come up with 12 for Fast-talk? It looks like it should be lower to me. It would be nice if you put in the relative skill level (e.g. IQ-1), so that it's easier to check the numbers.