Game Geekery - GURPS Content Posts

[mook]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Urr... unfortunately, that wouldn't affect the major wound threshold, which means the first attack would neither cripple the arm, nor cause a major wound.

Ha! Indeed -- it's like a Jenga tower.

I've simply made him "strong (ST 15), but not particularly tough (HP 12)" by fiat. :: waves the magic wand ::

[Kalzazz]

Well, I admit, I personally as a DM would not recommend a new player use GCA, as I personally do not like GCA and how it scatters things to the four winds, especially as a DM. I really want to see every single cost in a single specific place (for instance a spreadsheet, with all the CP costs in column C, and then SUM(C:C) in one place)

In this GCA sheet, unless its hidden somewhere magically, I don't even see where the costs of the spells go. You bought Pain (a non VH spell at 12), and Major Healing (a VH spell), both at 12 . . . I'm not hugely familiar with Pain, so I had to go look it up to see if it was VH or not and how many points were in it.


As a DM, the very second thing I do upon being given a character sheet (the very first thing I do is to do a quick glance over in general to make sure nothing utterly horrific jumps out at me) is to count up how many points could be saved by dropping all 2 CP or more skills down by 1 and raising the base stat by 1 . . . . . fortunately Kerna passes this test, though only barely (if Pain was a VH spell she would have failed. Her IQ skill point spending is very close to me as a DM rejecting her as a character and sending her back to the player for fixing)


One thing I believe is missing is a discussion of starting wealth and shopping. Here we have a TL 3 character, with no Wealth advantages, with well over 1k in gear. This is a curious thing that does not seem to have been explained/addressed.

[mook]

Hiya, Kalzazz.

Originally Posted by Kalzazz

Well, I admit, I personally as a DM would not recommend a new player use GCA, as I personally do not like GCA and how it scatters things to the four winds, especially as a DM. I really want to see every single cost in a single specific place (for instance a spreadsheet, with all the CP costs in column C, and then SUM(C:C) in one place)

I've found new players love GCA for doing "all that math" for them, whether it's actually a lot of math or not (spoiler: it isn't :P), but certainly different strokes, different folks.

There's a points summary box on the bottom left corner of the second page that sounds like what you're describing?

Originally Posted by Kalzazz

In this GCA sheet, unless its hidden somewhere magically, I don't even see where the costs of the spells go.

It is hidden somewhere magically, but that would be on me. I wanted to print the spells separately on the Grimoire sheet, which gives a lot of information not on the basic character sheet (class, time to cast, duration, cost, etc.), but then if I left the spells under the skill list (where the point cost shows) there would be two spell lists. The Grimoire info seemed more pertinent to newbies, since "learning spells is just like learning skills" and they already know how to do that, so I went with the Grimoire.

Originally Posted by Kalzazz

As a DM, the very second thing I do upon being given a character sheet (the very first thing I do is to do a quick glance over in general to make sure nothing utterly horrific jumps out at me) is to count up how many points could be saved by dropping all 2 CP or more skills down by 1 and raising the base stat by 1 . . . . . fortunately Kerna passes this test, though only barely (if Pain was a VH spell she would have failed. Her IQ skill point spending is very close to me as a DM rejecting her as a character and sending her back to the player for fixing)

A valid approach, of course, but I never bother optimizing points. It just doesn't interest me (and is probably heretical!). I see the attribute and skill levels as descriptors as much as mechanical breakpoints, so it's common for me to start with "Kerna 'feels' like a ST 13 character with 14s and 15s in her combat skills," then force the points to match that.

Meaning, I didn't set out to make a 250-point character. I made the character I felt would give me what I wanted for the purposes of the example, set her attributes, ads/disads, and skill levels where they seemed natural, then spent the points necessary to hit those levels. They tallied up to something like 242, so I just rounded off to 250 and spent those last 8 points.

Originally Posted by Kalzazz

One thing I believe is missing is a discussion of starting wealth and shopping. Here we have a TL 3 character, with no Wealth advantages, with well over 1k in gear. This is a curious thing that does not seem to have been explained/addressed.

I didn't specify Kerna as being a "new" character (i.e., she could have been built at 225 points and been adventuring a while, earning cash and vacuuming up gear), but I may make a note of that in the example if it's confusing. She could just as easily have been issued gear by the military she's part of.

Thanks for all that! These kinds of questions definitely help polish off the edges.

[Kalzazz]

It is not a lot of math at all, but it is tedious if you try to do everything by hand . . . . thats why I really like sheets like this (as an example I threw together to illustrate the sheet)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...wLk/edit#gid=0

Notice every single CP spent is conveniently grouped in column C, and then SUM(C:C) is in D1

I consider 'keeping track of where points go' to be the number one most important use of a character sheet (everything else, such as the actual level of the skill etc, can be easily derived from knowing how many points went into it)

I don't find that GCA or GURU or such really help speed chargen much. Either players are familiar with the trait in question and already know its cost, so they can write it down easily. Or they are not, and need to look at the book to read what it does to figure whether or not they want to take it, so they already have the book open and can see what it costs.

What GCA (and an Excel Spreadsheet) both excel at is keeping a running tally of how many points you have spent

The 'lots of points in skills, few in stats' is mostly just a pet peeve of mine as a DM that makes me think of developmentally disabled robots, and the 'relative skill to stat' part of 4e is one of my least favorite parts also . . . so I tend to minimize it. But I was just noting it was one of the things that, whenever encountered by a new character, I reflexively check.

I think explaining gear/starting wealth would be important at least as a note, I mean, you explain everything else about making the character, their inventory is important to (at least a quick note when discussing wealth and equipment I think. You did specifically say one of your favorite parts was shopping, and shopping usually implies a budget)

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by mook

I've found new players love GCA for doing "all that math" for them, whether it's actually a lot of math or not (spoiler: it isn't :P), but certainly different strokes, different folks.

If a player had GCA or some other program, I would allow them to use it, but I'd ask for a copy of the character sheet, go through it, and verify everything, including the math.

But my bias is that using software for that sort of thing is a bad idea if you actually want to learn how it works. I've tutored people in math and accounting who habitually used calculators to do arithmetic—and too often they couldn't tell when they'd pushed the wrong buttons, because their brains didn't have the "that looks wrong" function that you get from working problems yourself. Now I don't think players have an obligation to learn how to do their own character building. But I think those who want to are better encouraged to do the math.

[Kalzazz]

I disagree . . . GURPS chargen requires elementary school math, the most complex things are percentages. Using a calculator or a tool like Excel just decreases the tedium involved in continuously adding together stacks of numbers to compare with your budget.

Its like grocery shopping, I usually have a good idea +/- 10% what my purchases will add up to since I know what I put in my cart, but I would rather a tool did the actual final adding together (though I always review the receipt before I leave the register to verify all items rang up the price I expected and no oddities)

As another example, I'm a programmer, so a decent amount of time I'm dealing with record layouts and displays and things and record lengths for datasets. I do not always add all the lengths of the variables up in my head or by hand to determine how long records need to be or how much filler is needed etc.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Kalzazz

I disagree . . . GURPS chargen requires elementary school math, the most complex things are percentages. Using a calculator or a tool like Excel just decreases the tedium involved in continuously adding together stacks of numbers to compare with your budget.

Its like grocery shopping, I usually have a good idea +/- 10% what my purchases will add up to since I know what I put in my cart, but I would rather a tool did the actual final adding together (though I always review the receipt before I leave the register to verify all items rang up the price I expected and no oddities)

Sure, I do the same thing. But the fact that you and I are capable of doing this does not mean that everyone is. I used to be a math tutor at the community college level; I dealt regularly with students who had no quantitative intuition—I mean, at the level where I said, "a 1% premium on a million dollar purchase," and my tutee said first a thousand dollars and then a hundred thousand dollars; trivially simple percentages were not obvious to her. The only way to develop that kind of quantitative intuition is to do elementary math till you have a close personal acquaintance with the first hundred integers. And I think that players who have not done that sort of thing with GURPS cannot really understand what their character building program is cranking out.

Nor do they have to. But not doing so has typical consequences.

As for me, I find keeping a running total of grocery purchases trivial; and I find adding up character costs in GURPS straightforward, and do it by hand. It gives me a better sense for what's on the character sheet. I don't say anyone else has to do it that way. But I don't feel any personal need for software to do this particular job.

[Kalzazz]

I do not enjoy chargen. I view it as best as a necessary evil required to get to the good stuff (much like drafting in Fantasy Football).

So anything that makes chargen less infuriating is to me a good thing.

Programs like GCA and GURU to me just make charge more unwieldy and I find the resulting character sheets unappealing and rather obfuscating.

Using a spreadsheet allows pretty sheets, and by eliminating tedious math makes the chargen process slightly quicker and easier

The vast majority of charge however is making choices, which having a tool do the adding doesn't change.

I used to do char sheets by hand on note paper, then decided notepad was better for printability and email, then Excel for auto summing, then Google spreadsheets for ease of sharing etc

[mook]

The arrows and fireballs are a'flying! Check out Kerna's ranged combat skills in the latest post, Intermediate Ranged Combat.

I also set up a Patreon a week or two ago with an eye to making the blog even bigger and better, which seems to be chugging along nicely. Maybe give it a peek if you enjoy the posts and have a couple minutes?

(Note: I'm exhausted and heading off to bed, but as always, I loves me some comments and feedback. If I shlubbed anything, I'll fix tomorrow after work).

[Diomedes]

Originally Posted by mook

The arrows and fireballs are a'flying! Check out Kerna's ranged combat skills in the latest post, Intermediate Ranged Combat.

(Note: I'm exhausted and heading off to bed, but as always, I loves me some comments and feedback. If I shlubbed anything, I'll fix tomorrow after work).

One thing leapt out at me: you have Kerna roll for her Explosive Fireball on the last turn of building it; by RAW, you're supposed to roll on the first turn you cast it (presumably since you may not know how much time you have, and might have to cut it short).

Also, it might be good to mention that Explosive Fireball has an area effect, which could have caused problems for Kerna's allies had they been within range (and even for Kerna herself, if she'd made the spell too big).