What does cost of living get you in a Fantasy setting?

[Phantasm]

Originally Posted by Dragondog

Could I just take the modern day example in Basic Set and convert it based on technology? So that the modern "A house (heavily mortgaged) or large apartment, and a car." changes car to a horse and then I'm done? Or would that be way off?

Well, by the RAW, horses are expensive, but the ratio of price at TL3 seems, at first glance, equivalent to that automobile you have at TL6+. So yeah, a horse or a horse-drawn cart would work.

At TL3+, at Status 1 you'd change from a cart to a wagon, and at Status 2 you might afford a better coach, with the number and quality of coaches increasing as you get higher.

Note that in these cases, the feed and stabling for the horses should be covered as part of the cost of living.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Dragondog

Could I just take the modern day example in Basic Set and convert it based on technology? So that the modern "A house (heavily mortgaged) or large apartment, and a car." changes car to a horse and then I'm done? Or would that be way off?

I don't think mortgaged houses were historically common, and I'm pretty sure they're rare in most fantasy settings.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

I don't think mortgaged houses were historically common, and I'm pretty sure they're rare in most fantasy settings.

Equivalent forms of tenancy did exist however. A status 0 person at TL3 is probably either a wealthy tenant farmer or a journeyman tradesman, either way he rents (in some form) his property.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Equivalent forms of tenancy did exist however. A status 1 person at TL3 is probably either a tenant farmer or a journeyman tradesman, either way he rents (in some form) his property.

I wouldn't say so. The basic dynamic of pre-industrial state-level societies is that most of the population live on the land, and are not as high as Status 0, which is a privileged position. (I have discussed this with Kromm at some length, and he strongly agrees with it—but I first made the point in GURPS Fantasy.) An average tenant farmer at TL1-4 is Status -1 and has the associated low cost of living. On the other hand, the minority of journeyman artisans in the cities are Status 0, at least partly because life in a city costs more: food has to be brought in by cart or riverboat, which substantially raises the cost, and you've got a big population crowded between city walls, which makes ground rent higher. $300/month will support a family out in the country, but it's just enough for a single man in the city—a poor one who can't afford to marry.

Status 1 is an extremely well off farmer or a journeyman in a high-paid guild.

The single biggest status marker up through TL5 was the ability to afford servants. A Status 0 household would generally have a maid; a Status 1 household would have a manservant, whose duties would include caring for the horses (or mules). Not having a servant definitely marked you as "common."

Bill Stoddard

[sir_pudding]

My apologies, I meant status 0. At any rate my point was that any time the CoL table mentions some modern form of debt or tenancy, there ought to be an equivalent form of debt or tenancy to match in most settings (whether historical or not) for most types of societies that have Status at all.

Sorry I confused the issue with a) misremembering Fantasy, and b) typing 1 instead of 0.

[Dragondog]

Originally Posted by whswhs

I wouldn't say so. The basic dynamic of pre-industrial state-level societies is that most of the population live on the land, and are not as high as Status 0, which is a privileged position. (I have discussed this with Kromm at some length, and he strongly agrees with it—but I first made the point in GURPS Fantasy.) An average tenant farmer at TL1-4 is Status -1 and has the associated low cost of living. On the other hand, the minority of journeyman artisans in the cities are Status 0, at least partly because life in a city costs more: food has to be brought in by cart or riverboat, which substantially raises the cost, and you've got a big population crowded between city walls, which makes ground rent higher. $300/month will support a family out in the country, but it's just enough for a single man in the city—a poor one who can't afford to marry.

Status 1 is an extremely well off farmer or a journeyman in a high-paid guild.

The single biggest status marker up through TL5 was the ability to afford servants. A Status 0 household would generally have a maid; a Status 1 household would have a manservant, whose duties would include caring for the horses (or mules). Not having a servant definitely marked you as "common."

Bill Stoddard

I have been reading Fantasy, so I think I have a pretty good grasp on what it says in this regard. Though I right now wish it had had the sidebar I'm looking for.

I would have to say though, that a full time maid, estimated income the same as a farmer, seems a little expensive. But perhaps she isn’t full time or perhaps she earns less.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Dragondog

I would have to say though, that a full time maid, estimated income the same as a farmer, seems a little expensive. But perhaps she isn’t full time or perhaps she earns less.

A maid is not a married man with a family to support; she earns less. And most of what she gets is in kind: food, a room to sleep in, and so on. You could probably figure that a maid gets by on Poor income, or not a lot more.

Bill Stoddard

[weby]

Basicslly cost of living covers: food, clothes, place to live(including servants at higher levels), suitable tranportation and normal cheap hobbies and such.

In my upcoming fantasy campign the quality is as follows:

The levels are different than standard, for normal status divide number below by about two.
Money is 1gp=10sp=100bp=1000cp 1cp=gurps$

Housing monthly

-4 Hayloft/cellar or similar 4bp
-3 Bunkhouse bunk 6bp
-2 shared 1 bedroom Lowtown 1sp 2 people/families
-1 shared 2/3 bedroom Lowtown. 1.5sp 1 person/fmaily/bedroom
0 1 bedroom Lowtown 2sp
1 2 bedroom Lowtown 3sp
2 3 bedroom Lowtown 4.5sp
3 1 bedroom Midtown 7sp
4 2 bedroom Midtown 1 gp
5 3 bedroom Midtown 1.5 gp
5 ‘Luxury’ Lowtown 1.5gp 3+ bedrooms, 2-3 additional rooms
6 1 bedroom Uptown 2.4gp
7 2 bedroom Uptown 3.6gp
8 3 bedroom Uptown 5gp
8 “Villa” Lowtown 6gp 2-4 stories, includes 1 servant
9 Luxury Midtown 8gp 3+ bedrooms, 2-3 additional rooms
10 Luxury Uptown 12gp 3+ bedrooms, 2-3 additional rooms
11 Villa Midtown 18gp 2-4 stories, includes 2 servants
12 Villa Uptown 27gp 2-4 stories, includes 3 servants


Meals and such:
-2 Bad meal +3 0.5cp 1lb 1day watery soup, small piece of bread
0 Normal meal +0 1cp 2lb 1day Normally eaten where bought. Soup+bread or similar
2 Good meal -3 2cp 2lb 1day Normally eaten where bought Meat+soup+bread
4 Very Good meal -6 4cp 2lb 1day Normally eaten where bought Meat+soup+bread
6 Excelent meal -9 1bp 3lb 1day Normally eaten where bought Meat+soup+bread+fruits..
8 Suberb meal -12 2bp 3lb 1day Normally eaten where bought Meat+soup+bread+fruits+much more..
-2 Very watery wine +3 0.5cp 1lb
0 Watered wine/bad ale +0 1cp 1lb
2 Wine/Ale -3 2cp 1lb
4 Good Wine/Ale -6 4cp 1lb
6 Very Good Wine/Ale -9 1bp 1lb
8 Excellent Good Wine/Ale -12 2bp 1lb

[Dragondog]

Originally Posted by whswhs

A maid is not a married man with a family to support; she earns less. And most of what she gets is in kind: food, a room to sleep in, and so on. You could probably figure that a maid gets by on Poor income, or not a lot more.

Bill Stoddard

I only looked at how much a barmaid made, which was more than a farmer. But when I read the details, I note that much of her income is in tips. So that makes sense. Thanks.

Would a single Status 0 man still have a maid? Or does the half CoL mean that he is more like Status -1?

[mlangsdorf]

For most of history, a respectable single man would have a manservant, valet, or lackey of some kind. Not having one would be considered vaguely disreputable. If he was skilled enough up at keeping up appearances without making it seem like he was doing the work himself, it might not lower his status. If it became obvious that he had no servants and was doing the servant's work himself, then he'd likely lose status or reputation.