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Old 02-17-2017, 07:22 AM   #31
malloyd
 
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Default Re: [Madness Dossier] Skill of the Week: Esmology

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Originally Posted by Phantasm View Post
What would be a good use of this skill for a game that's not a "Madness Dossier" type game? Would it be useful for a Monster Hunters, swords-and-sorcery, superhero, or space opera type game?
Well the +3 as a complementary skill to any attempt to influence a group is certainly handy anywhere.

The problem with the other part, "perfect predictive analysis of any
group or mass of people", is basically the same as any other kind of precognition. It's a plot destroyer if you take it literally, though it's pretty obvious you aren't supposed to even in Madness Dossier. After all the Anunnakku didn't predict and program for our resistance group to appear. Well probably....

Extending the +3 to any situation where knowing what a group might do would help would make sense though.
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Old 02-17-2017, 07:26 AM   #32
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Default Re: [Madness Dossier] Skill of the Week: Esmology

Esmology is kind of combat sociology. I guess one might use it (renamed for preference) in a cinematic Transhuman Space campaign, in which expert memeticists can predict group-based actions by analysing the memetics that motivate them.

(The Madness Dossier assumes that free will is an illusion because the Anunnakku built us this way. Cinematic memetics assumes that free will is an illusion because we are creatures of our mental structures. Different causes, potentially similar results.)
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Old 02-17-2017, 07:28 AM   #33
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Default Re: [Madness Dossier] Skill of the Week: Esmology

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The problem with the other part, "perfect predictive analysis of any group or mass of people", is basically the same as any other kind of precognition. It's a plot destroyer if you take it literally, though it's pretty obvious you aren't supposed to even in Madness Dossier. After all the Anunnakku didn't predict and program for our resistance group to appear. Well probably....
Though one of the potential paranoia-makers in that setting is the question Who created the original resistance, or whatever it was caused the great reality quake?
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Old 02-17-2017, 08:23 AM   #34
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Default Re: [Madness Dossier] Skill of the Week: Esmology

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Originally Posted by Phantasm View Post
What would be a good use of this skill for a game that's not a "Madness Dossier" type game? Would it be useful for a Monster Hunters, swords-and-sorcery, superhero, or space opera type game?
What do you want it to do?

In Madness dossier it does 2 things:

1 - Predict, 2 - Aid in Manipulation attempts (via the +3). Both apply only to groups.

A proper student of the sc-fi concept of Psychohistory (from Asimov's Foundations series) could use it to predict extremely large groups, but I could see it also being applied to small groups who have had lots of intensive training (ie, how a military squad would react, how veteran police officers might respond to a situation, etc). Note this application of the skill can be covered by other skills (Tactics, Savoir Faire (Police), Psychology, etc).


Also keep in mind, getting the skill in Madness Dossier requires a 10 point UBC, but it comes with a number of other things, so, I'd say 5 points for just having the skill might suffice. Or no UBC if you drop the manipulate aspect from it.


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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
You need the assumption that groups of people are operating under predictable programs. Also the name has significance in setting so you might want to change that
Both of these are unnecessary (depending on what he wants), and the name simply comes form the Greek word for 'swarm (also flock or herd, or other large groups that act in like accordance), so... it's not exactly something purely unique to the setting.

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Old 02-17-2017, 08:46 AM   #35
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Default Re: [Madness Dossier] Skill of the Week: Esmology

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Originally Posted by evileeyore View Post
Both of these are unnecessary (depending on what he wants), and the name simply comes form the Greek word for 'swarm (also flock or herd, or other large groups that act in like accordance), so... it's not exactly something purely unique to the setting.
If you want to make it human-specific, anthroesmology probably can't mean anything else. Though in most cases, you should look hard at sociology first.
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Old 02-17-2017, 10:36 AM   #36
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Default Re: [Madness Dossier] Skill of the Week: Esmology

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If you want to make it human-specific, anthroesmology probably can't mean anything else. Though in most cases, you should look hard at sociology first.
Should be "anthropoesmology." The Greek for "human being of either sex" is anthropos; as far as I know there is no Greek word anthros.
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Old 02-17-2017, 11:41 AM   #37
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Default Re: [Madness Dossier] Skill of the Week: Esmology

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Should be "anthropoesmology." The Greek for "human being of either sex" is anthropos; as far as I know there is no Greek word anthros.
There probably is in some dialect - the word spelled αντρας, husband, in modern Greek seems to usually be rendered andros in neo-classical coinages, but there are a lot of Greek dialects through history and standard spelling is a pretty modern thing anyway. If you spelled it with δ instead of τ, which is what you'd probably expect from d in andros you'd even correctly pronounce it with the hard th sound in modern Greek. It's close kinship to anthropos should be obvious too.
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Old 02-17-2017, 11:50 AM   #38
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Default Re: [Madness Dossier] Skill of the Week: Esmology

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If you spelled it with δ instead of τ, which is what you'd probably expect from d in andros you'd even correctly pronounce it with the hard th sound in modern Greek. It's close kinship to anthropos should be obvious too.
That's the sort of thing that keeps me coming back to these forums in preference to any others.
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Old 02-17-2017, 12:09 PM   #39
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Default Re: [Madness Dossier] Skill of the Week: Esmology

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Originally Posted by evileeyore View Post
Both of these are unnecessary (depending on what he wants),
The huge bonus is because human groups are highly predictable in the setting. If human groups aren't as predictable than you shouldn't get the same large bonus. A skill like Sociology could be used as a complimentary skill for +1 instead (and be able to realistically predict vague trends in group behaviors).
Quote:
and the name simply comes form the Greek word for 'swarm (also flock or herd, or other large groups that act in like accordance), so... it's not exactly something purely unique to the setting.
It was chosen in the setting because of the regimented nature of the human hive in History B. If I saw it in another setting I'd be waiting for Irruptors the entire campaign. If you are going to use it as a basis for something like Pyschohistory then I would strongly suggest changing the name too; it would be much less confusing. "So I want to play a Pyschohistorian in your Foundation game." "Okay, you want the Esmology skill, which is what I'm calling 'pyschohistory', for like .... no reason."
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Old 02-17-2017, 12:36 PM   #40
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Default Re: [Madness Dossier] Skill of the Week: Esmology

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Originally Posted by malloyd View Post
There probably is in some dialect - the word spelled αντρας, husband, in modern Greek seems to usually be rendered andros in neo-classical coinages, but there are a lot of Greek dialects through history and standard spelling is a pretty modern thing anyway. If you spelled it with δ instead of τ, which is what you'd probably expect from d in andros you'd even correctly pronounce it with the hard th sound in modern Greek. It's close kinship to anthropos should be obvious too.
But aner, andros is a different word than anthropos, anthropou. It means "male human being" or sometimes "husband," rather than "human being of either sex."

Besides, in forming modern English scientific words from Greek roots, it's customary to use the standard classical forms, not dialect forms and certainly not Modern Greek.
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