Cybersuit -- Submersible or Not?

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

I used 'crush depth' as a shorthand for 'depth at which you begin taking damage from being crushed by the pressure'. I thought it's an obvious way to avoid a long sentence.

In the rules it is not expressed as a depth but rather as a multiple of your native pressure.

That pressure could be related to a given oceanic depth for normal human beings but that can not be translated into general rules for what the Pressure Support Advantage means in the real world. The Advantage deals only with results and not specific mechanisms for achieving those results. It could cover many things.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

In the rules it is not expressed as a depth but rather as a multiple of your native pressure.

That pressure could be related to a given oceanic depth for normal human beings but that can not be translated into general rules for what the Pressure Support Advantage means in the real world. The Advantage deals only with results and not specific mechanisms for achieving those results. It could cover many things.

Sure, that's a pressure. But there is an approximate correspondence between depth below the water level, and experienced pressure.

I'm not sure what you meant about not being able to translate the meaning of Pressure Support. It protects against The Bends and depth-crushing damage at the respective pressure levels. It's what it does.

Now, the multipliers in the Basic rules may be off, which is a different matter entirely.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Sure, that's a pressure. But there is an approximate correspondence between depth below the water level, and experienced pressure.

I'm not sure what you meant about not being able to translate the meaning of Pressure Support. It protects against The Bends and depth-crushing damage at the respective pressure levels. It's what it does.

Now, the multipliers in the Basic rules may be off, which is a different matter entirely.

The correspondence only applies to creatures without Pressure Support _and_ a native pressure similar to humans. You can not apply the Basic Set rules based either on depth or pressure but only to _multiples_ of _native_ pressure.

You especially can not derive any single mechanism of Pressure Support. The Advantage could (at various levels) apply to special bioroids, robots, golems, undead, water elementals and probably many other things.

You also can not meaningfully discuss Pressure Support in terms of its' relationship to armor as the rules text explicitly states that Pressure Support performs no armor-like functions.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

You also can not meaningfully discuss Pressure Support in terms of its' relationship to armor as the rules text explicitly states that Pressure Support performs no armor-like functions.

Considering that the actual topic of the thread is armor which is supposed to provide Pressure Support, it's both inevitable and necessary that we can.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

Considering that the actual topic of the thread is armor which is supposed to provide Pressure Support, it's both inevitable and necessary that we can.

<shrug>If you actually want to go by the RAW you can only conclude that the two are not related. It says so in plain text.

To further clear matters up the TL11 Cybersuit doesn't mention the Pressure Support Advantage anyway. The common English words "pressure support" are used but they aren't capitalized. The civilian Cybersuit wouldn't correspond to a canon level of Pressure support either. This is gear and not a Super Gadget.

[Nereidalbel]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Okay, I don't know which fishies have a big variation of acceptable pressure, so I'll get back to mammals:
Sperm whales. Diving up to 3,000 yards underwater, which is almost 300 atmospheres of pressure. That's Pressure Tolerance 3 right there. But I think at most they'd qualify for DR (Tough Skin), not for something rigid.

Only if we assume their native pressure is sea level. Since they only surface momentarily, we must assume that their native pressure is some depth in the ocean. This affects what level of Pressure Tolerance they have.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Nereidalbel

Only if we assume their native pressure is sea level. Since they only surface momentarily, we must assume that their native pressure is some depth in the ocean. This affects what level of Pressure Tolerance they have.

That is kind of silly. They are born near the surface, like all cetaceans, and spend a lot of time near the surface, like all cetaceans, they just dive very deep to hunt.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Nereidalbel

Only if we assume their native pressure is sea level. Since they only surface momentarily, we must assume that their native pressure is some depth in the ocean. This affects what level of Pressure Tolerance they have.

Look, you're not the first person to realize that it's always cheaper to abuse Vacuum Support by defining one's native pressure as 10,000 atmospheres, than to buy Pressure Support from a native pressure of 1atm or less.

Plus what sir_pudding said.

[Nereidalbel]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Look, you're not the first person to realize that it's always cheaper to abuse Vacuum Support by defining one's native pressure as 10,000 atmospheres, than to buy Pressure Support from a native pressure of 1atm or less.

I don't think I'd ever allow that, even on my own characters.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Nereidalbel

I don't think I'd ever allow that, even on my own characters.

Then why are you trying to 'allow' the exact same thing with the whale template?