Lots of questions about the details in Heroes on the Mass Scale

[Sam Baughn]

Active Defence:

• Does a block count as an 'additional parry'?
• What level of unarmed skill is required to count as an additional parry? I'm guessing it's being able to parry a typical weapon attack on a 9 or better.

Attack

• Which skills are allowed to be used here? Fireball is given as an example, so presumably not just skills which can make attack rolls.
• How does the multiple rapid strike thing work? Does it replace the Skill-5 or add to it? Does 'minimum of 12 mean minimum skill of 12 or skill-10 must be at least 12?

Damage

• Presumably you don't have to define your 'best attack' as the one with the highest skill or damage, just whichever gives you the best bonus?
• How about weapons with limited shots like a LAAW? Should that be treated like an attack that costs FP?

Special Classes

• Mechanized mobility doesn't seem to give the Cavalry class. Is this intentional?

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Perfect Organism

• Does a block count as an 'additional parry'?

Umm, why would it? It's a block, not a parry. I'm confused by this statement. :-/

Originally Posted by Perfect Organism

• What level of unarmed skill is required to count as an additional parry? I'm guessing it's being able to parry a typical weapon attack on a 9 or better.

No, it's the ability to parry twice (using once per hand) per turn - which means most unarmed skills.

Originally Posted by Perfect Organism

• Which skills are allowed to be used here? Fireball is given as an example, so presumably not just skills which can make attack rolls.

It's implicit that it's any skill which can be used to cause damage.

Originally Posted by Perfect Organism

• How does the multiple rapid strike thing work? Does it replace the Skill-5 or add to it? Does 'minimum of 12 mean minimum skill of 12 or skill-10 must be at least 12?

It replaces it. Minimum skill of 12 means literally that. I made it as explicit as possible. For example, if you have Trained by a Master and a Karate of 18, then you could inflict another two attacks (-3 to skill per attack, so -6). So: (12 - 10) x 3 = 6.

Originally Posted by Perfect Organism

• Presumably you don't have to define your 'best attack' as the one with the highest skill or damage, just whichever gives you the best bonus?

There was talk about that during the review and about half wanted it to be the best attack must make the best skill, and the other half didn't. The rules assume the former vs. the latter. A case can be made for the latter however if the GM rules otherwise.

Originally Posted by Perfect Organism

• How about weapons with limited shots like a LAAW? Should that be treated like an attack that costs FP?

That's actually a good question and I honestly wish I'd thought of it while writing. I don't know. Muskets are effectively one shot in same combat scales and I didn't limit them. I think the best thing to do is just to leave it be.

Originally Posted by Perfect Organism

• Mechanized mobility doesn't seem to give the Cavalry class. Is this intentional?

Not all Mechanized elements are Calvary and vice versa. They can be though.

[Sam Baughn]

Originally Posted by Ghostdancer

Umm, why would it? It's a block, not a parry. I'm confused by this statement. :-/

It just seems strange to me that having an extra weapon or just an empty hand to parry with is better than being able to block as well as parry.

For example, a character with Boxing-12, Shield-16 and Shortsword-18 armed with a shortsword and small shield would be better off without the shield. +4 for Parry 12 and +2 for an extra parry vs. +5 for Parry 13 (including 1 DB) and no bonus for being able to block.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Perfect Organism

It just seems strange to me that having an extra weapon or just an empty hand to parry with is better than being able to block as well as parry.

For example, a character with Boxing-12, Shield-16 and Shortsword-18 armed with a shortsword and small shield would be better off without the shield. +4 for Parry 12 and +2 for an extra parry vs. +5 for Parry 13 (including 1 DB) and no bonus for being able to block.

That's pretty much how the shield rules work, I didn't make them, I just try to run/play/write in them. Do keep in mind that you have to have both hands free to do parry attacks unarmed like that. I took into account your best active defense (which most players capitalize on anyways) vs. averaging all of them. I suppose you could figure all your Active Defenses normally, then average them and use that if you really wanted to.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Perfect Organism

It just seems strange to me that having an extra weapon or just an empty hand to parry with is better than being able to block as well as parry.

For example, a character with Boxing-12, Shield-16 and Shortsword-18 armed with a shortsword and small shield would be better off without the shield. +4 for Parry 12 and +2 for an extra parry vs. +5 for Parry 13 (including 1 DB) and no bonus for being able to block.

Originally Posted by Ghostdancer

That's pretty much how the shield rules work, I didn't make them, I just try to run/play/write in them. Do keep in mind that you have to have both hands free to do parry attacks unarmed like that. I took into account your best active defense (which most players capitalize on anyways) vs. averaging all of them. I suppose you could figure all your Active Defenses normally, then average them and use that if you really wanted to.

I think the point was that having a Block + Parry is usually at least as valuable, in terms of what a TS a character should count as, as having a Parry + Parry.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Icelander

I think the point was that having a Block + Parry is usually at least as valuable, in terms of what a TS a character should count as, as having a Parry + Parry.

Honestly, my experience is that you either build your Block super-high or you have just enough points in Shield/Cloak to wield a shield so you can get the DB for it to enhance your other defenses. That's have I've seen it consistently unfold for over a decade so that's how I wrote it.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Ghostdancer

Honestly, my experience is that you either build your Block super-high or you have just enough points in Shield/Cloak to wield a shield so you can get the DB for it to enhance your other defenses. That's have I've seen it consistently unfold for over a decade so that's how I wrote it.

I have not noticed any measurable difference in the relative skill levels for Shield or Axe/Mace, Knife, Main-Gauche or Shortsword for characters who bother to carry either in their off-hand, instead of using a two-handed weapon.

I've never seen a character rely merely on a high Shield skill for defence. For one thing, a -5 to more than one Block in a turn is crippling.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Icelander

I have not noticed any measurable difference in the relative skill levels for Shield or Axe/Mace, Knife, Main-Gauche or Shortsword for characters who bother to carry either in their off-hand, instead of using a two-handed weapon.

I've never seen a character rely merely on a high Shield skill for defence. For one thing, a -5 to more than one Block in a turn is crippling.

I have. Weapon Master (Shield) halves the penalties and it's quite useful. Heck, having a DB of 3+ gives you a free block every turn. If it bothers you, then change it for your games. Like it's progenitor system (the Combat Effectiveness Rating from "It's a Threat!"), this is not using math for raw numbers. That way lies madness with a system as versatile as GURPS. Instead, this is my experiences as a GURPS GM over a decade distilled with what I know about the system and how it works to come up with a way to eyeball hero elements in GURPS Mass Combat..

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Ghostdancer

I have. Weapon Master (Shield) halves the penalties and it's quite useful. Heck, having a DB of 3+ gives you a free block every turn. If it bothers you, then change it for your games. Like it's progenitor system (the Combat Effectiveness Rating from "It's a Threat!"), this is not using math for raw numbers. That way lies madness with a system as versatile as GURPS. Instead, this is my experiences as a GURPS GM over a decade distilled with what I know about the system and how it works to come up with a way to eyeball hero elements in GURPS Mass Combat..

My experience is that the off-hand weapon is usually from 0-3 skill levels lower than the primary weapon. This applies whether the off-hand weapon is a shield or another weapon.

The higher penalty to multiple Blocks makes Shield unsuitable for the only defence for powerful combat characters (anyone who expects to face more than one successful attack per turn), but the DB bonus counteracts this nicely when the character uses a Shield and Parry.

In terms of threat or power level, characters wielding a rapier and main-gauche, scimitar and dueling buckler, falchion and hatchet, two shortswords or broadsword and shield are essentially equivalent, assuming that they have similar combat traits, mutatis mutandis.