Winchester Model 12

Z09SS · 07-30-2016, 11:52 PM

Since I recently inherited a Heavy Duck I looked to see if there were GURPS stats for it.

High-Tech Pulp Guns Vol. 1 does!

And it doesn't match my reality testing on a couple of stats.

With 3" shells the capacity is 5+1 not 4+1. With 2-3/4" shells the capacity is 6+1, which is the normal capacity of ALL Model 12's I found out, not the listed 5+1.

Then there's the weight. Mine comes to just 9.1 lb. loaded with 5 rounds of 3" 00 buckshot not the 9.7 listed in the book. Ammo weight agrees though!

A friend has a 16ga gun and, except for the capacity, it matches the book stats.

I'd submit this as an errata, but those seem to disappear forever for guns stats.

HANS · 07-31-2016, 05:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Z09SS

Since I recently inherited a Heavy Duck I looked to see if there were GURPS stats for it.

High-Tech Pulp Guns Vol. 1 does!

And it doesn't match my reality testing on a couple of stats.

With 3" shells the capacity is 5+1 not 4+1. With 2-3/4" shells the capacity is 6+1, which is the normal capacity of ALL Model 12's I found out, not the listed 5+1.

Then there's the weight. Mine comes to just 9.1 lb. loaded with 5 rounds of 3" 00 buckshot not the 9.7 listed in the book. Ammo weight agrees though!

A friend has a 16ga gun and, except for the capacity, it matches the book stats.

Thanks for the feedback! I used old period catalogues for most of the stats, including for this gun, as I didn't have a Windester Model 12 at hand to examine it myself. It is quite possible that the weights were either wrong in the source(s) or I mixed them up. As to the capacity, all the catalogues and ads I've seen list it as "six shot", which at the time meant "5+1". The US Army Ordnance Department in 1944 also listed the Model 12 as 5+1 (in 12-gauge 2.75"), just like the Model 97. However, a google search seems to confirm that these period sources are, in fact, incorrect!

Cheers

HANS

Z09SS · 08-01-2016, 12:24 PM

I feel your pain on trying to decipher if the capacity is X or y+1=X.

It's not helped that the "duck plug", which is just a wooden dowel that you put inside the magazine spring, is marked "3 shell" because it limits the gun to 2+1 capacity.

Winchester isn't even consistent with their own catalog!

07-30-2016, 11:52 PM	#1
Z09SS Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Holiday, FL	Winchester Model 12 Since I recently inherited a Heavy Duck I looked to see if there were GURPS stats for it. High-Tech Pulp Guns Vol. 1 does! And it doesn't match my reality testing on a couple of stats. With 3" shells the capacity is 5+1 not 4+1. With 2-3/4" shells the capacity is 6+1, which is the normal capacity of ALL Model 12's I found out, not the listed 5+1. Then there's the weight. Mine comes to just 9.1 lb. loaded with 5 rounds of 3" 00 buckshot not the 9.7 listed in the book. Ammo weight agrees though! A friend has a 16ga gun and, except for the capacity, it matches the book stats. I'd submit this as an errata, but those seem to disappear forever for guns stats. __________________ A hobbyist is an expert in their hobby. Unaccredited to be sure, but an expert nonetheless!

08-01-2016, 12:24 PM	#3
Z09SS Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Holiday, FL	Re: Winchester Model 12 I feel your pain on trying to decipher if the capacity is X or y+1=X. It's not helped that the "duck plug", which is just a wooden dowel that you put inside the magazine spring, is marked "3 shell" because it limits the gun to 2+1 capacity. Winchester isn't even consistent with their own catalog! __________________ A hobbyist is an expert in their hobby. Unaccredited to be sure, but an expert nonetheless!