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Old 09-19-2015, 07:56 AM   #11
Leynok
 
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Default Re: [Basic] TK + Compartmentalized Mind = double lifting ST?

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Originally Posted by Donny Brook View Post
And yet, adding Extra Arms does not increase your Basic Lift. With TK bought based on a given price for a given capacity it seems illogical to have a parallel processer generate a whole second armamentarium. And I see a lot of potential for abuse.
CM lets you take an extra Concentrate on your turn. There is nothing saying that it can't be the same Concentrate as something you're already doing. Having both of your minds working towards pushing something makes perfect sense, and comparable to having 2 bodies to lift something like their Duplication comparison. It's not like the levels are being added together, I doubt it would cause much problems.
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Old 09-19-2015, 08:26 AM   #12
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Default Re: [Basic] TK + Compartmentalized Mind = double lifting ST?

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Originally Posted by Donny Brook View Post
And yet, adding Extra Arms does not increase your Basic Lift. With TK bought based on a given price for a given capacity it seems illogical to have a parallel processer generate a whole second armamentarium. And I see a lot of potential for abuse.
Adding an Extra Arm doesnt change your Basic Lift, but it does let you do a three armed lift for 3xBL. Compartmentalized Mind and TK is the same.
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Old 09-19-2015, 08:56 AM   #13
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Default Re: [Basic] TK + Compartmentalized Mind = double lifting ST?

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Originally Posted by chandley View Post
Adding an Extra Arm... does let you do a three armed lift for 3xBL.
Where do you find that in the rules? I didn't see a mention of improved BL under Extra Arms, nor with a quick scan of my PDFs.
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Old 09-19-2015, 09:32 AM   #14
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Default Re: [Basic] TK + Compartmentalized Mind = double lifting ST?

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Originally Posted by Anaraxes View Post
Where do you find that in the rules? I didn't see a mention of improved BL under Extra Arms, nor with a quick scan of my PDFs.
I don't think anybody argued that Extra Arms increase BL. What they do, however, is increase the number of Arms, and you can lift BL with an arm (or 2×BL if slower). (It is important, however, not to exceed your other limits, such as how much your legs can support, IIRC 15×BL.)

Side note:
While the multiple-TK ruling is canoncal, the Alternate Ability ruling I've been arguing for has been found to be incorrect as of the period of Sorcery playtests. So if you have Alternate Abilities, each set of abilities still has to be in the same mode between compartments, but you do get two TK's, or two Innate Attacks, or whatever.
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Old 09-19-2015, 09:38 AM   #15
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Default Re: [Basic] TK + Compartmentalized Mind = double lifting ST?

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Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
you can lift BL with an arm.
I see; thanks. That interpretation makes more sense. I was confused by the definition of BL where it mentions 2xBL for one arm and 8xBL for two.
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Old 09-19-2015, 10:16 AM   #16
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Default Re: [Basic] TK + Compartmentalized Mind = double lifting ST?

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Originally Posted by Anaraxes View Post
I see; thanks. That interpretation makes more sense. I was confused by the definition of BL where it mentions 2xBL for one arm and 8xBL for two.
Oh, 2×BL for one arm, sorry. The point is that if an arm can lift 2×BL, three arms can lift a total of 6×BL if they each work alone, or 10×BL if two work together and another alone.
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Old 09-19-2015, 10:28 AM   #17
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Default Re: [Basic] TK + Compartmentalized Mind = double lifting ST?

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Originally Posted by Donny Brook View Post
That explanation is too gamist to be very convincing. The same rationale then cries out for an adjustment of the two traits' relative prices.
Or a better name for Compartmentalized Mind, which is actually Extra Action (mental actions only). Mind that would probably make the answer no too.

At least some of the fluff about Compartmentalized Minds has some rules relevance, as long as you don't take a limitation to remove the separate compartments. The more general form of Extra Action, Accelerated Time Rate, doesn't even have that, with no forms of it actually having nothing to do with the rate time flows.
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Old 09-19-2015, 10:43 AM   #18
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Default Re: [Basic] TK + Compartmentalized Mind = double lifting ST?

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Originally Posted by Anaraxes View Post
I see; thanks. That interpretation makes more sense. I was confused by the definition of BL where it mentions 2xBL for one arm and 8xBL for two.
That's 2xBL for one arm taking 2 seconds to lift. It's still only BL for a one arm lift in 1s.

And the 8xBL for two arm lift is taking 4 seconds to lift an object.

In the section on Lifting in Campaigns (B353) it mentions that multiple characters can add their BL (not ST) together where reasonable (such as lifting a stretcher). So the same would apply to multiple instances of TK for CM (two compartments could do 2xBL [since each instance has the exact same ST] in 1s, 4xBL in 2s or 16xBL in 4s [since each instance is a pair of hands]... additional compartments would add another multiple to times [3x, 6x, 24x for 3 then 4x, 8x, 32x for 4, etc.]) but this is all subject to if the GM feels it's reasonable each instance can assist on the same object (especially since, unlike with people, you can't easily tell where the other compartment is applying force - so without a means to communicate freely between compartments - or "see" the invisible force - assistance might be impeded... of course this isn't really an issue for default CM and would crop up more with Limitations or with Duplication and TK without Mindlink).

Last edited by Barghaest; 09-19-2015 at 10:54 AM.
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Old 09-19-2015, 11:19 AM   #19
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Default Re: [Basic] TK + Compartmentalized Mind = double lifting ST?

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Originally Posted by Donny Brook View Post
And yet, adding Extra Arms does not increase your Basic Lift. With TK bought based on a given price for a given capacity it seems illogical to have a parallel processer generate a whole second armamentarium. And I see a lot of potential for abuse.
The prevailing thought (if I remember correctly) at the time was that disallowing CM to give separate uses of Mental Abilities only pushes people into making the wonkier Duplicate (Mental Duplication Only) build.

Which gets really weird.

Last edited by evileeyore; 09-19-2015 at 11:31 AM.
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