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Old 09-16-2023, 05:05 PM   #1
Drakenbow
 
Join Date: Sep 2023
Default Shapeshifting

The IQ18 Shapeshifting spell says it allows to transform a subject into any known type of creature with some conditions. In very short summary:
1) the ST + DX total trade off.
2) cannot lower an attribute too far below normal for the new form.
3) cannot use some talents (or use magic) depending on new form.
4) subject gets the physical form, but not mental abilities of new form. The example is one doesn't learn the language of the new form.

How would you allow the following:
A) a person transformed into a gargoyle whose flight is tied to a 'limited ability to levitate'? In other words, is this a 'physical' form ability or more of a 'mental' ability?
B) a person transformed into an octopus with its ability to use three arms without DX penalty and the change to its side/rear hexes?
C) spellcasting for any creature known to be able to speak or wield its own magic? example: a one-hex dragon can talk as well can an octopus
D) would you consider a Dragonet, being like a dragon, able to speak and thus cast but just don't because of such a low IQ of 6?
E) would a person shifted into a reptile man get the HTH nasty bonus?
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Old 09-16-2023, 06:36 PM   #2
TippetsTX
 
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Default Re: Shapeshifting

Are TFT dragons talkers? Always seemed a bit ambiguous to me.

No question they can understand languages (probably several) and it doesn't bother me if they do talk, though that pushes them more towards the D&D model than I like.

Otherwise...
A) Yes, shape-shifting into a gargoyle should provide the ability to fly (or levitate)
B) Yes
C) Not necessarily. I think this would depend on whether you think non-humanoid spellcasting bears any resemblance to the techniques used by humanoids. Spells that can be cast w/o verbal or somantic elements should be fine, though.
D) No
E) Yes

(my opinions, of course)
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Last edited by TippetsTX; 09-16-2023 at 06:49 PM.
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Old 09-16-2023, 07:33 PM   #3
Drakenbow
 
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Default Re: Shapeshifting

Quote:
Originally Posted by TippetsTX View Post
Are TFT dragons talkers? Always seemed a bit ambiguous to me.
Well, in Orb Quest the hydra could speak and talks to the orb seekers. The Dragonodons are telepathic and able to send thoughts, but cannot read thoughts. Dragons can use magic items, but are never wizards. They are intelligent beings with a social order amonst themselves. While dragons themselves are not listed as having telepathic abilities as Dragonodons, they were in Classic TFT a method to 'forgetting' talents and spells.

Plus, Classic and LEgacy TFT listed Dragon as a language a character may learn (p.16 old book, p.44 Legacy).
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Old 09-16-2023, 08:43 PM   #4
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Default Re: Shapeshifting

Another interesting question... if you shape-shift into an octopus, that doesn't mean you can speak 'octopus' does it? Changing into an elf wouldn't grant 'elvish' (unless you already knew it).

TBH, I doubt you would be able to speak at all since octopus vocalization likely isn't designed for humanoid languages.
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Old 09-17-2023, 06:16 AM   #5
hcobb
 
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Default Re: Shapeshifting

Dragon's don't cast. Their fire breath is more like using a magic weapon in terms of combat options.
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Old 09-17-2023, 02:13 PM   #6
Drakenbow
 
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Default Re: Shapeshifting

Quote:
Originally Posted by hcobb View Post
Dragon's don't cast. Their fire breath is more like using a magic weapon in terms of combat options.
Yes, understood that dragons themselves don't cast or use magic, but since they can speak and have limbs would that qualify the shape being able to cast if a human would transform into one?

So, it kind of comes down to it, what shape forms (in a general sense) could a Shapeshifted person still use his/her magic while in that form?

As a side note, if shifted into an Octopus, that would open up to learning the Octopi language IMO, assuming their physical ability to communicate is completely different from humanoids. One would be able to hear and 'vocalize' their language.
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Old 09-17-2023, 06:47 PM   #7
timm meyers
 
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Default Re: Shapeshifting

The real question is can a wizard charge enough money for their shapeshifting cosmetic enhancement service?
An IQ-18 career in the wizard guild is listed as 200 week so I suppose they need only do 1 or 2 "lift, tucks or enlargements" per month if they charge 500 to 1k each.
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Old 09-17-2023, 09:03 PM   #8
Drakenbow
 
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Default Re: Shapeshifting

Quote:
Originally Posted by timm meyers View Post
The real question is can a wizard charge enough money for their shapeshifting cosmetic enhancement service?
An IQ-18 career in the wizard guild is listed as 200 week so I suppose they need only do 1 or 2 "lift, tucks or enlargements" per month if they charge 500 to 1k each.
You are on the edge of a major business. Think about how many warriors who might like to shift ST and DX around a little bit.
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Old 09-17-2023, 10:36 PM   #9
Skarg
 
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Default Re: Shapeshifting

As the spell says, many of the details and limits of Shapeshifting are up to the GM to determine for their game.

I've played it a few different ways.

I'd say closest to RAI is probably something like:

A) yes
B) yes
C) yes, up to the voice/gesture requirements for that wizard with each spell
D) yes
E) yes

However, I have sometimes decided Shapeshifting doesn't give magical abilities such as flight to flying shapes that need magic to fly, so in that case I have played it instead like:

A) no flying shapeshifted gargoyles or dragons
B) yes
C) yes though learning to cast spells with tentacle gestures might take some time to learn to do well
D) yes, but some GMs don't let dragons (or dragonets) ever cast spells
E) yes
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Old 09-19-2023, 12:03 AM   #10
Steve Plambeck
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Default Re: Shapeshifting

I am perhaps backwards in my own variant of the spell.

The subject keeps their original attributes, except for MA which is replaced by the normal MA of what they're turned into.

The subject takes on all the physical abilities (and limitations) of the species they've been turned into. As a bird or gargoyle they could fly. As a fish, they'd die out of water.

You can turn a ST 16 barbarian into a mouse, but you'll find it remarkably resilient when getting stomped. He'll still have all his talents, but he won't be able to use any the new anatomy wouldn't normally allow.

Wizards turned into animals remember their spells, but can't cast any because most animals can't talk. A wizard turned into a parrot can still talk, so she can cast spells. If the perch in her cage just happens to be her Staff, she could still draw on the staff mana too.

That's mostly all untested, but hey, what could go wrong! :)
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