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Old 04-11-2017, 01:29 PM   #21
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Default Re: The Future of the DFRPG

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Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
So the Paizo product is big and full service. Everything is in there and with little or no need to create anything yourself. Mirror is much smaller and mostly consists of one useful tool with some vague suggestions for the rest of things.
The problem with the adventure paths is that this is what they are: paths. They're railroads, pure and simple. They have no replay value. They appeal to some folks, but not to everyone.

If you go down the path of paths, you are making sure to appeal to a market that Pathfinder owns, and to a market that appeals to few existing GURPS players, who tend to be tinkerers. Obviously, you want to bring in new players, though you can't afford to get rid of the existing customer base. You have to offer Pathfinder players something other than Pathfinder with different numbers.

Also, keep in mind that Paizo has loads of resources it can throw at its paths, and develop the prettiest railroads. Pathfinder players devour paths constantly, and you need to keep churning out new ones, about two a year.

Then there's the organized play aspect, which is a big draw for the paths. Folks not in a Pathfinder Society game are much less likely to be using an adventure path, and instead playing something nearer to Pathfinder's D&D 3.75 roots.

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As to the difference between GMs for one or the other there isn't necessarily any. I've done both and no GM in our group is exclusively Pathfinder. Few write their own adventures any more though.
That would not jibe with my experience, wherein no GMs I know use published adventures exclusively; some don't use them at all. Again, I'd focus on GMs making their own adventures fast.
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Old 04-11-2017, 03:23 PM   #22
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Default Re: The Future of the DFRPG

Check out Razorcoast by Frog God games for an example of what I would love GURPS to have. It's a great self-contained sandbox campaign. There are no railroads there at all.
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Old 04-11-2017, 03:34 PM   #23
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Default Re: The Future of the DFRPG

A quick answer because I've got some stuff I need to get to, but the thing that kicks me in the pants the most is...a setting. I know it's been avoided for a lot of reasons, but DnD gamers are going to want something that they can grab and go with. If that's built via adventures, fine. But it needs to be there.
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Old 04-11-2017, 03:58 PM   #24
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Default Re: The Future of the DFRPG

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The problem with the adventure paths is that this is what they are: paths. They're railroads, pure and simple.
IME, this simply isn't true. I have been playing Rise of the Runelords and running Iron Gods. I don't feel railroaded in RotRL at all, and I feel like my players have plenty of choice in IG. My IG game is radically modified from the published version anyway because my players work for the principal villains (sort of) and I haven't really had to do much to accommodate the change in concept.

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They have no replay value.
That's true of adventures, period; dungeons even more so.
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Old 04-11-2017, 04:24 PM   #25
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Default Re: The Future of the DFRPG

This whole thing needs to be taken to RPG.net, enworld.com, and others. That's Phil's point and it's a good one.
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Old 04-11-2017, 04:50 PM   #26
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Default Re: The Future of the DFRPG

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This whole thing needs to be taken to RPG.net
Way ahead of you.
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Old 04-11-2017, 07:06 PM   #27
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  • Fluff-heavy. Adventures and, dare I say, a setting or settings.
Definitively this - a setting. Think about the new GM on the block, buying the DF box set. He needs 1) think on some basics for his campaign setting, 2) create an adventure and 3) Create NPCs and PCs. Lots of effort and time, even with streamlined rules, for a novice GM. If he wants to convert another adventure/campaign from other system... oh boy, better play WoW.

And after all this, he still shouts "roll HT-2 for a Affliction Attack" instead of "you are attacked by the Putrified Eye of Dargolak".

I do believe DF will address some, or perhaps, all these concerns, but not as a whole like a setting can do.

Dungeon Fantasy was born and grow in PDFs - a safe choice. The same path can be use for his setting - start with the history, gods, magic, magical itens, NPCs and stories, lots of stories.

One day we can see a new Kickstart for all these works.
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Old 04-11-2017, 08:47 PM   #28
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Default Re: The Future of the DFRPG

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That's true of adventures, period; dungeons even more so.
This is flat-out not true. Dungeons have quite a bit of replay value. There's a dungeon in my own game to which the players have been twice, months apart in-game (with many adventures in between) and have yet to clear. If you follow TKD's blog (which I know you do), you'll see examples of AD&D adventures that he's run many times, with the same players.
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Old 04-11-2017, 09:41 PM   #29
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Default Re: The Future of the DFRPG

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This is flat-out not true. Dungeons have quite a bit of replay value. There's a dungeon in my own game to which the players have been twice, months apart in-game (with many adventures in between) and have yet to clear. If you follow TKD's blog (which I know you do), you'll see examples of AD&D adventures that he's run many times, with the same players.
In that way, the locations in an Adventure Path also have replay value. How could they not?

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Old 04-11-2017, 11:51 PM   #30
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Default Re: The Future of the DFRPG

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Originally Posted by chrismaille View Post
Definitively this - a setting. Think about the new GM on the block, buying the DF box set. He needs 1) think on some basics for his campaign setting, 2) create an adventure and 3) Create NPCs and PCs. Lots of effort and time, even with streamlined rules, for a novice GM. If he wants to convert another adventure/campaign from other system... oh boy, better play WoW.

And after all this, he still shouts "roll HT-2 for a Affliction Attack" instead of "you are attacked by the Putrified Eye of Dargolak".

I do believe DF will address some, or perhaps, all these concerns, but not as a whole like a setting can do.

Dungeon Fantasy was born and grow in PDFs - a safe choice. The same path can be use for his setting - start with the history, gods, magic, magical itens, NPCs and stories, lots of stories.

One day we can see a new Kickstart for all these works.
My idea of a useable setting is a somewhat fleshed-out town, a forest to hike through for a number of days, and a dungeon. Upper level politics and enumerated gods, the sorts of high-level detail usually focused on in setting books, are information I don't need to play and can easily make up if needed as GM. It's things like dungeon maps and trap placements that I struggle with.
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