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Old 11-20-2021, 01:16 PM   #1
DAT
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Idaho Falls, Idaho
Default Parkour Tic-Tac Examples and Questions

While exploring an abandoned Dwarfish Fortress in an underground grotto, the party of adventures is ambushed by a large group of orcs. A couple volleys of arrow from archers on top of walls as well as Darkness and Stench Clouds spells from an orc shaman caused the party to shatter for shelter and become separated. Two of the party, Dar the Wood Elf Martial Artist and Tarian the Human Swashbuckler find themselves running together along twisting passage ways. They are just starting to get ahead of the group behind them, when they are spotted by a different group ahead of them. Tarian successful stops himself from overconfidently charging into the Orcs, and Dar spots a narrow side passage and darts in, calling for Tarian to follow.

Once both are in the 1 yard wide passage, Dar notices the passage appears to dead-end 25 yards ahead of him, but also notices the walls are only 15’ tall. Dar calls back to Tarian he is going to Tic-Tac up the wall as he does his full move down the passage, Tarian overconfidently declares he will follow.


Dar: DX 16, Basic Move 11, Jumping 16, Acrobatics 15, Climbing 15, Encumbrance Level 0
Tarian: DX 15, Basic Move 9, Jumping 16, Acrobatics 15, Climbing 14, Encumbrance Level 0

Tic-Tac rules are on MA.106.
The rules don’t specify the move has to be in the same turn as the Tic-Tac steps, so I will assume both do a full move straight forward for two seconds, getting the +20% (2 for Dar, 1 for Tarian) to Move the second turn, before attempting the Tic-Tacs the third turn.

Dar –
1st Tic-Tac: rolls a 10, less than Jump -4, and moves up: (((11+13)x2)-3)/4 = 11.25 feet
2nd Tic-Tac: rolls a 10, equal to Jump-6, and moves up (((11+1)x2)-3)/4 = 5.25 feet, for a total of 16.25 feet, and successfully clears the wall.

Tarian –
1st Tic-Tac: rolls an 11, less than Jump -4, and moves up: (((9+10)x2)-3)/4 = 8.75 feet
2nd Tic-Tac: rolls a 9, less than Jump -6, and moves up: (((9+1)x2)-3)/4 = 4.25 feet, for a total of 13 feet
3rd Tic-Tac: rolls a 7, less than Jump -8, and moves up: (((9+1)x2)-3)/4 = 4.25 feet, which would normally total 17.25 feet, however Tarian’s total Tic-Tac height is limited to 13.5 feet (Basic Move/2)
Dive over the edge of the wall: rolls an 11, less than Acrobatics-2, clears the additional 1.5 feet and successfully clears the wall (though in a prone position).

Questions:
Do the above examples look right?
(Other than the fact Tarian shouldn’t have tried the 3rd Tic-Tac, and should have just dove after the second. For that matter, Dar maybe should have dove after his first … but that is part of a question below.)

How much move would Dar have once he cleared the wall? None, 6 (11-5) [reduced by one yard per vertical distance], 4 (11 – (5+2)) [reduced by one yard per vertical distance and by the horizontal distance of each Tic-Tac], ~1 (11/2-5) [half move reduced by vertical distance], or other?

Should the Tic-Tacs take one second total? One second per Tic-Tac? Or Other?

If Tic-Tac height gain is limited to Basic Move/2, I assume that is how high off the ground a character’s feet are. So is it a good assumption that a character should be able, after Tic-Tacing up to Basic Move/2 distance above the ground, be able to reach/grab higher, and then pull themselves up?

If so, how much higher? Height + reach + (if jumping roll successful) standing high jump distance?

Assuming a successful Tic-Tac brings a character to within their height/reach of the top of where they are trying to go, but they fail (NOT crit failed) their last jumping roll. Would you allow them a DX/Acrobatics/Climbing roll (at some penalty) to catch the edge of the wall since part of their body is above the point they are trying to reach?

If yes, would you make it a static penalty, or make the penalty dependent on how much higher they need to go to reach the top? (e.g., -2 or -4 roll versus -1 if within ¼ of their height, -2 if within ½ of their height, -3 if within ¾ of their height, -4 if within their height, and -6 if within their reach above their height).

Did I miss anything?
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Old 11-22-2021, 12:34 AM   #2
Pursuivant
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Default Re: Parkour Tic-Tac Examples and Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by DAT View Post
How much move would Dar have once he cleared the wall? None, 6 (11-5) [reduced by one yard per vertical distance], 4 (11 – (5+2)) [reduced by one yard per vertical distance and by the horizontal distance of each Tic-Tac], ~1 (11/2-5) [half move reduced by vertical distance], or other?
Options 2 or 3 seem most logical, but I'd go for a "Move" equal to half normal standing Long Jump distance starting from the wall the character "bounced" off of. This assumes that your last jump before you clear the wall has you taking off at an approximately 45* angle & you are able to push off the wall without about half the forward momentum you could normally muster if you were jumping from flat ground.

It ignores speed loss from previous jumps (since each jump adds energy to overcome the force of gravity) which is built into the maximum height you can achieve with the Tic-Tac maneuver.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DAT View Post
Should the Tic-Tacs take one second total? One second per Tic-Tac? Or Other?
Looking at videos of real-life Parkour practitioners, I'd say 1 second per jump, although both characters in your example have superhuman Move scores, so allowing 1 jump per Move/5 (rounded down), or 1 jump per yard of basic Step distance, doesn't seem unreasonable. That allows Dar, who's capable of booking along at 22 mph without using Extra Effort or Running skill to clock 2 jumps/sec., while his companion, who merely chugs along at 18 mph, is stuck performing just 1 jump/sec.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DAT View Post
If Tic-Tac height gain is limited to Basic Move/2, I assume that is how high off the ground a character’s feet are. So is it a good assumption that a character should be able, after Tic-Tacing up to Basic Move/2 distance above the ground, be able to reach/grab higher, and then pull themselves up?
Again, looking at video of RL world-class PK experts, I'd say "none of the above".

Take a look at the examples here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrnjuYDUHM0

Given a sufficiently rough wall or a narrow "chimney" where you don't loose too much height due to gravity before you encounter a new surface to jump off of, you can go way higher than Basic Move/2 (e.g., the chimney climb at 0.44 on the video where the free-runner reaches at least 5 yard/15 feet before pulling himself up the rest of the way. The blocks provide handy measurement scale of ~1 meter/3-4 feet).

If you want to create a house rule, maximum tic-tac height in a "chimney" less than 2 yards wide could be as high as [Basic Move x 1] yards.

Additionally, the Tic-Tac technique should be able to boost your effective Basic Move when determining maximum height.

It's also clear that if you do run out of jumping energy, you should be able to immediately roll vs. Climbing skill to cling to a wall with handholds and then climb the rest of the way up. Alternately, you might be able to roll vs. Acrobatics skill to grab a projection with your hands and haul yourself up on your next turn, gaining height equal to your body length.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DAT View Post
If so, how much higher? Height + reach + (if jumping roll successful) standing high jump distance?
Turn 1: Jumping skill roll to gain half maximum High Jump distance (or maximum Long Jump distance), followed by Acrobatics roll to nail the first Tic-Tac.

Turn 2+: Success on later roll allows you to gain height per RAW. Maximum height is based on success rolls, up to maximum possible height plus initial jumping height.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DAT View Post
Assuming a successful Tic-Tac brings a character to within their height/reach of the top of where they are trying to go, but they fail (NOT crit failed) their last jumping roll. Would you allow them a DX/Acrobatics/Climbing roll (at some penalty) to catch the edge of the wall since part of their body is above the point they are trying to reach?
Again, looking at the video, it's obvious that just about all Parkour Tic-Tacs where the free runner intends to clear the wall end with them grabbing the top of the wall, pushing off with their feet and using Acrobatics or Climbing skill to haul themselves up & vault over the wall.

That means any successful skill roll where the character gains enough height to get their hands within grasping distance of the top of the wall should be able to make a DX, Acrobatics, or Climbing skill roll to grab the top of the wall and hang on.

To simplify things, assume that the last Acrobatics/Jumping skill roll includes the option of grabbing top of the far wall and automatically hauling yourself up and vaulting over the edge on your next turn, so that you land on the far side of the wall. This could be considered to be a modified "Step" maneuver.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DAT View Post
If yes, would you make it a static penalty, or make the penalty dependent on how much higher they need to go to reach the top? (e.g., -2 or -4 roll versus -1 if within ¼ of their height, -2 if within ½ of their height, -3 if within ¾ of their height, -4 if within their height, and -6 if within their reach above their height).
I wouldn't penalize based on remaining distance unless something happens which seriously slows the character down. Instead, apply a standard penalty to each turn of activity, based on distance between parallel vertical surfaces (perhaps -1 per 1 foot beyond 3 feet), RAW modifiers for Parkour techniques, and the modifiers to Climbing skill for surface slickness, surface slope, and available hand/foot holds.

Bad rolls will penalize overall effort in reduced height gain from a given jump, which in turn increases number of rolls needed, which adds further chances for failure/critical failure.
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Old 12-10-2021, 10:33 PM   #3
DAT
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Idaho Falls, Idaho
Default Re: Parkour Tic-Tac Examples and Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pursuivant View Post
Options 2 or 3 seem most logical, but I'd go for a "Move" equal to half normal standing Long Jump distance starting from the wall the character "bounced" off of. This assumes that your last jump before you clear the wall has you taking off at an approximately 45* angle & you are able to push off the wall without about half the forward momentum you could normally muster if you were jumping from flat ground.

It ignores speed loss from previous jumps (since each jump adds energy to overcome the force of gravity) which is built into the maximum height you can achieve with the Tic-Tac maneuver.



Looking at videos of real-life Parkour practitioners, I'd say 1 second per jump, although both characters in your example have superhuman Move scores, so allowing 1 jump per Move/5 (rounded down), or 1 jump per yard of basic Step distance, doesn't seem unreasonable. That allows Dar, who's capable of booking along at 22 mph without using Extra Effort or Running skill to clock 2 jumps/sec., while his companion, who merely chugs along at 18 mph, is stuck performing just 1 jump/sec.



Again, looking at video of RL world-class PK experts, I'd say "none of the above".

Take a look at the examples here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrnjuYDUHM0

Given a sufficiently rough wall or a narrow "chimney" where you don't loose too much height due to gravity before you encounter a new surface to jump off of, you can go way higher than Basic Move/2 (e.g., the chimney climb at 0.44 on the video where the free-runner reaches at least 5 yard/15 feet before pulling himself up the rest of the way. The blocks provide handy measurement scale of ~1 meter/3-4 feet).

If you want to create a house rule, maximum tic-tac height in a "chimney" less than 2 yards wide could be as high as [Basic Move x 1] yards.

Additionally, the Tic-Tac technique should be able to boost your effective Basic Move when determining maximum height.

It's also clear that if you do run out of jumping energy, you should be able to immediately roll vs. Climbing skill to cling to a wall with handholds and then climb the rest of the way up. Alternately, you might be able to roll vs. Acrobatics skill to grab a projection with your hands and haul yourself up on your next turn, gaining height equal to your body length.



Turn 1: Jumping skill roll to gain half maximum High Jump distance (or maximum Long Jump distance), followed by Acrobatics roll to nail the first Tic-Tac.

Turn 2+: Success on later roll allows you to gain height per RAW. Maximum height is based on success rolls, up to maximum possible height plus initial jumping height.



Again, looking at the video, it's obvious that just about all Parkour Tic-Tacs where the free runner intends to clear the wall end with them grabbing the top of the wall, pushing off with their feet and using Acrobatics or Climbing skill to haul themselves up & vault over the wall.

That means any successful skill roll where the character gains enough height to get their hands within grasping distance of the top of the wall should be able to make a DX, Acrobatics, or Climbing skill roll to grab the top of the wall and hang on.

To simplify things, assume that the last Acrobatics/Jumping skill roll includes the option of grabbing top of the far wall and automatically hauling yourself up and vaulting over the edge on your next turn, so that you land on the far side of the wall. This could be considered to be a modified "Step" maneuver.



I wouldn't penalize based on remaining distance unless something happens which seriously slows the character down. Instead, apply a standard penalty to each turn of activity, based on distance between parallel vertical surfaces (perhaps -1 per 1 foot beyond 3 feet), RAW modifiers for Parkour techniques, and the modifiers to Climbing skill for surface slickness, surface slope, and available hand/foot holds.

Bad rolls will penalize overall effort in reduced height gain from a given jump, which in turn increases number of rolls needed, which adds further chances for failure/critical failure.
Thanks for the thoughts and insight. I like the house rules.
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