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Old 03-12-2016, 11:03 AM   #131
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Default Re: GURPS After the End 1: Wastelanders

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Originally Posted by Wavefunction View Post
Would it be bad form to ask what kind of time-scale ATE 2 is going to be released on? I've told my players I'm going to wait for it before starting our After The End game, and I want to know if that's reasonable, or if it's going to be too long a wait.

If we're talking about weeks that's fine, months might be a bit much. Days would be freaking awesome.

Thanks.
We're talking weeks at most. No book 2 of a series has been released more than a month after book 1.
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Old 03-13-2016, 11:33 PM   #132
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Default Re: GURPS After the End 1: Wastelanders

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Would allowing weapons (and maybe armor) to use the Bulky or Hard to Use modifiers break the game? Bulky would require adjusting MinST, but we actually have rules for that in Low Tech Companion 2 (for melee weapons). Might need a new table for pistols and rifles, or perhaps not. There is clearly a MinST adjustment for the round fired, but just adding +1 per lb for pistols and +1 per 2lbs for rifles doesnt seem to far wrong.
I could see a version of them for weapons, though I'm not convinced that they'd translate over perfectly. As you note, "bulky" has other connotations for weapons.

As for armor, I'm not certain that Hard to Use fits at all. Maybe Bulky, but that might be too good in comparison to Cheap armor. Compare suits of DR 1 armor + Bulky to suits of DR 2 armor + Cheap and you'll see what I mean.

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Also, Crude (from DFD: Barbarians) seems like a good fit for AtE no?
Possibly, though it might break suspension of disbelief when the players are told that their Crude weapons are considered absolutely worthless by every other trader, particularly in a game where even improvised weapons like a balanced piece of rebar are considered to have some value.
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Old 03-14-2016, 08:56 AM   #133
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Default Re: GURPS After the End 1: Wastelanders

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Possibly, though it might break suspension of disbelief when the players are told that their Crude weapons are considered absolutely worthless by every other trader, particularly in a game where even improvised weapons like a balanced piece of rebar are considered to have some value.
To me, the biggest drawback of Crude in DF* is not the lack of weapon resale value, but the inability to enchant or make the item out of special materials, which doesn't translate at all into ATE.

Thus, in that vein, I'd allow Crude, but only for items the PCs wish to purchase as starting gear. Equipment so shoddy looking no one even wants to buy it for parts...




* Also that my Ogre Barbarians's Mace w/Axe Head that cost $320 will return no money when eventually resold... Maybe I can con the GM into letting me reforge it...
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Old 03-14-2016, 09:02 AM   #134
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I could see a version of them for weapons, though I'm not convinced that they'd translate over perfectly. As you note, "bulky" has other connotations for weapons.

As for armor, I'm not certain that Hard to Use fits at all. Maybe Bulky, but that might be too good in comparison to Cheap armor. Compare suits of DR 1 armor + Bulky to suits of DR 2 armor + Cheap and you'll see what I mean.
True, though that might be the only place where Bulky is clearly better. And really, Fur or Cloth is better than Cheap Leather anyway. But applying it to armor clearly warrants a careful look. Perhaps 2x weight (as if it where SM +1) would suffice. Playtesting needed.

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Possibly, though it might break suspension of disbelief when the players are told that their Crude weapons are considered absolutely worthless by every other trader, particularly in a game where even improvised weapons like a balanced piece of rebar are considered to have some value.
Right, because even in DF, it is more of a social problem than an actual value problem. I think an explanation of "its irradiated" might suffice. Mutants living in death zones make Crude equipment, and everyone believes their stuff will poison, irradiate or mutate non-mutants who use it. If you use it, you get the Social Stigma (no easy way to just add Freakishness I think... ) because of that. Or each piece of Crude equipment is -1 to reactions, just like each 9 levels of Freakishness. The latter would strictly limit the amount of worthless Crude stuff you might carry if you ever want to go into town. Which might be a good thing.
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Old 03-14-2016, 09:22 AM   #135
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Default Re: GURPS After the End 1: Wastelanders

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Right, because even in DF, it is more of a social problem than an actual value problem. I think an explanation of "its irradiated" might suffice. Mutants living in death zones make Crude equipment, and everyone believes their stuff will poison, irradiate or mutate non-mutants who use it. If you use it, you get the Social Stigma (no easy way to just add Freakishness I think... ) because of that. Or each piece of Crude equipment is -1 to reactions, just like each 9 levels of Freakishness. The latter would strictly limit the amount of worthless Crude stuff you might carry if you ever want to go into town. Which might be a good thing.
That's a really good reinterpretation - in the post-nuclear badlands, everyone's pretty barbaric, and the real outsiders are the people from hot zones :)

For other apocalypses, substitute eg from plague stricken areas (other people being convinced that they can catch The Plague from anything touched, which is pretty normal human psychology). For a supernatural apocalypse, it's curses.

Whatever your source, instead of a style problem, it's a taint problem.

... what's a good "taint" for a scenario where It All Ended due to ecological collapse due to runaway global warming? Collapse due to nanotech failure or alien bio-warfare gives obvious "taints", but mundane ecological collapse doesn't have an obvious contamination agent.
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Old 03-14-2016, 10:06 AM   #136
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Default Re: GURPS After the End 1: Wastelanders

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That's a really good reinterpretation - in the post-nuclear badlands, everyone's pretty barbaric, and the real outsiders are the people from hot zones :)

For other apocalypses, substitute eg from plague stricken areas (other people being convinced that they can catch The Plague from anything touched, which is pretty normal human psychology). For a supernatural apocalypse, it's curses.

Whatever your source, instead of a style problem, it's a taint problem.

... what's a good "taint" for a scenario where It All Ended due to ecological collapse due to runaway global warming? Collapse due to nanotech failure or alien bio-warfare gives obvious "taints", but mundane ecological collapse doesn't have an obvious contamination agent.
Runaway global warming might still leave irradiated death zones (from failing nuclear reactors, thank you Mr. West). There will also likely be plague or parasite "death zones": areas where crops or all plant life fail because of bugs, microbes, whatever and/or malaria, ebola, whatever. It didnt end the world, it just came with the end of the world.

It doesnt even have to be real. Ugly savages use crude weapons, they are clearly dirty, so us noble barbarians wont touch it. And you have no standing with the savages, despite your equipment, so you can not participate in their bigman/gifting economy, so it has no value there, either.

Best I can do :). Still noodling on weapon weight and Bulky armor.
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Old 03-14-2016, 11:50 AM   #137
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Default Re: GURPS After the End 1: Wastelanders

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... what's a good "taint" for a scenario where It All Ended due to ecological collapse due to runaway global warming? Collapse due to nanotech failure or alien bio-warfare gives obvious "taints", but mundane ecological collapse doesn't have an obvious contamination agent.
Runaway tropical diseases could take hold in once temperate zones, particularly mosquito-borne diseases like malaria or Zilka. For tainted equipment- ebola could become more common, and the bubonic plague could make a comeback, or even smallpox. Think of all those miles of sub-arctic permafrost melting and releasing diseases we haven't seen for millennia. Polio is another one carried by touch, I believe, and it's seeing a resurgence in some places now.
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Old 03-14-2016, 01:18 PM   #138
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Default Re: GURPS After the End 1: Wastelanders

Algal blooms, non specific infection sources (every scratch gets infection type)
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Old 03-14-2016, 02:01 PM   #139
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I don't know what the "Crude" modifier does, but i think it makes the gear cheaper and prevents players reselling it.

With that in mind instead of being infected it could appear to be in such terrible condition that no one will buy it regardless of how good you claim it to be. If you want to clean it up and fix it up so that someone will buy it then you need to spend enough time/money that it would lose the modifier.
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Old 03-14-2016, 02:58 PM   #140
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Default Re: GURPS After the End 1: Wastelanders

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I don't know what the "Crude" modifier does, but i think it makes the gear cheaper and prevents players reselling it.
That's half of it, see post 133 above.
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