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Old 09-30-2013, 09:21 AM   #1
Anders
 
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Default Krokodil

This is a drug that rots away at the tissues of the user. How much is that worth as an addiction?

You can read about it here. Warning: Graphic images - do not watch if you get nauseous easily.

Fixed link
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Old 09-30-2013, 11:33 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by Asta Kask View Post
This is a drug that rots away at the tissues of the user. How much is that worth as an addiction?
I don't actually believe those sorts of stories very much - this is a moderately common scare the kids away from drugs claim, and the dramatic damage is pretty much always from stuff left in from lousy purification. But I don't see that it changes the game mechanics even if true. Lots of stuff is bad for you in the long term, if it won't kill you in the next year or two, it doesn't change the point value.
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Old 09-30-2013, 11:57 AM   #3
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The Addiction is to desomorphine. Its effectiveness is 8-10 times that of morphine, where diamorphine (heroin) is 4-5 times that of morphine – and in a campaign, I'd simply treat all of this stuff as one Addiction and leave the matter of which drugs someone is taking abstract as long as drugs are available. If availability were to drop, then addicts would have to take what they can get or face withdrawal. "What they can get" may well be poison . . . they could attempt default Chemistry rolls if they had a "cookbook" and suitable ingredients, or they could buy from people who do that. Either way, any bad effects would be a campaign issue, not intrinsic to the drug, because clean opiods would work just fine and be preferred if available. It isn't as if users crave the bad effects of iodine and phosphorus, any more than characters with Bully crave being shot in the face if the only people they can bully happen to have guns.

This isn't specific to opiods. Very few "clean" drugs produced under controlled conditions will rot your flesh, dissolve your teeth, etc. Those effects result from impurities introduced in street production. You don't get extra points for Addiction just because you use crappy versions of the drug. You can certainly get extra points for Impulsiveness, On the Edge, low Wealth, etc., however, if your personal situation is tough or you're undiscriminating.
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Old 09-30-2013, 12:07 PM   #4
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This isn't specific to opiods. Very few "clean" drugs produced under controlled conditions will rot your flesh, dissolve your teeth, etc. Those effects result from impurities introduced in street production.
Basically the same lesson as don't buy your bathtub gin from guys who ferment in low nitrogen conditions, run the distillation to dry or otherwise don't watch out for methanol or other fusel alcohols.
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Old 09-30-2013, 12:31 PM   #5
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I'm getting a page about information content of DNA ... but as Kromm says it's entirely possible that the tissue damage is due to an impurity rather than inherent to the action of the drug itself. Either that or the means of administration.

But it's a worthwhile question - how do we model addictions that have a significant harm beyond the addicition itself and inflict (as per example) toxic damage or some other detriment?
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Old 09-30-2013, 12:40 PM   #6
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But it's a worthwhile question - how do we model addictions that have a significant harm beyond the addicition itself and inflict (as per example) toxic damage or some other detriment?
If it's soon enough, Terminally Ill. Otherwise, just take disads to represent the effects of the drug.
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Old 09-30-2013, 01:17 PM   #7
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I'm getting a page about information content of DNA ... but as Kromm says it's entirely possible that the tissue damage is due to an impurity rather than inherent to the action of the drug itself. Either that or the means of administration.
I fixed the link now. The pictures are only visible if you scroll down a fair bit. It is absolutely a question of impurities, yes. The drug is manufactured in your kitchen from codeine, turpentine, hydrochloric acid, red phosphorous and probably some other nasty stuff. Then you inject that. Ouch.

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But it's a worthwhile question - how do we model addictions that have a significant harm beyond the addicition itself and inflict (as per example) toxic damage or some other detriment?
Yeah, that's the broader question. For Krokodil, I'd have you make a HT roll per month, and on a failure you lose 1 HP and 1 HT permanently. Something like that.
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Old 09-30-2013, 06:07 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by The Colonel View Post
I'm getting a page about information content of DNA ... but as Kromm says it's entirely possible that the tissue damage is due to an impurity rather than inherent to the action of the drug itself. Either that or the means of administration.

But it's a worthwhile question - how do we model addictions that have a significant harm beyond the addicition itself and inflict (as per example) toxic damage or some other detriment?
Krokidil is roughly an eighth the cost of heroin, that's the appeal of it. How it would work in a campaign would probably be that the addict can get a cheap fix, but a resisted roll would be needed to avoid toxic damage and possibly a random disadvantage(sympton enhancement on the poison, one arm, one leg, etc.

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Old 09-30-2013, 12:30 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
The Addiction is to desomorphine. Its effectiveness is 8-10 times that of morphine, where diamorphine (heroin) is 4-5 times that of morphine – and in a campaign, I'd simply treat all of this stuff as one Addiction and leave the matter of which drugs someone is taking abstract as long as drugs are available. If availability were to drop, then addicts would have to take what they can get or face withdrawal. "What they can get" may well be poison . . . they could attempt default Chemistry rolls if they had a "cookbook" and suitable ingredients, or they could buy from people who do that. Either way, any bad effects would be a campaign issue, not intrinsic to the drug, because clean opiods would work just fine and be preferred if available. It isn't as if users crave the bad effects of iodine and phosphorus, any more than characters with Bully crave being shot in the face if the only people they can bully happen to have guns.

This isn't specific to opiods. Very few "clean" drugs produced under controlled conditions will rot your flesh, dissolve your teeth, etc. Those effects result from impurities introduced in street production. You don't get extra points for Addiction just because you use crappy versions of the drug. You can certainly get extra points for Impulsiveness, On the Edge, low Wealth, etc., however, if your personal situation is tough or you're undiscriminating.
Interesting. I didn't think of it like that. And yeah, I agree that opiates should be one addiction with cost depending on your drug of choice from that group. And methadone (which is an opioid but not an opiate) as a mitigator.
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Old 09-30-2013, 05:58 PM   #10
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Interesting. I didn't think of it like that. And yeah, I agree that opiates should be one addiction with cost depending on your drug of choice from that group. And methadone (which is an opioid but not an opiate) as a mitigator.
Please don't make the mistake that Methadone us only used for opiate replacement therapy.

Methadone (a synthetic opioid) is a strong pain killer that is only recently being used as such in the US. It does, however, have some links with some heart problems which is why Lee can no longer take it and is back on opioids again.

Chronic pain sucks.
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