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Old 12-28-2017, 05:28 PM   #241
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Default Re: [Modern Firepower] Technothriller gear for secret DHS team in 2017

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Originally Posted by Kalzazz View Post
Looks like you can get a Browning BAR (The modern semi auto, not the WW2 gun) in .270 Weatherby Magnum
The Browning BAR would actually be perfect for this role if it had better magazine capacity than 3 or 4 rounds.

I've heard stories of a mythical extended magazine for it, but I've never actually found any for sale on the Internet.

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Originally Posted by Kalzazz View Post
The Remington 7400 can be tricked out in very Tacticool police fashion and can chamber the iconically flat shooting .270 Winchester
The .270 Winchester is certainly competative with most intermediate long range cartridges, though I think that there is a wider selection of high-tech bullets in 6.5mm and .30 caliber. Granted, 6mm Creedmoor, 6x47 Lapua, 6.5 Creedmoor and 6.5x47 Lapua seem to edge it out as a choice for punching steel at 1,000 yards in competitions, but that might have as much to do with less recoil as it does a miniscule advantage in ballistic coefficient.

I think the Remington 740/7400/750 would be a very old-fashioned, economical choice compared to many of the ultra-modern, fashionable alternatives. Which will suit some characters, certainly.

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You can get the Remington 7615 Police in various calibers including .270 Winchester, and nothing is as Tacticool as that, I mean, has all the awesome of a police pump shotgun but it's a rifle!
Ah, very clever. Of course a pump-action will have ROF 2, which is enough for rapid accurate fire at long ranges, even for supersoldiers.*

However, I thought that the Remington 7615P just came in 5.56x45mm NATO/.223 Remington and if you wanted the gun in any other chambering, you had to get the Model 7600.**

Have you seen a Remington pump-action rifle in .270 Winchester with all the features of the Model 7615P, including an extended magazine the size of a 20-rd or 30-rd STANAG?

*The best shot who has been encountered in the campaign can fire two aimed shots per second out to the maximum effective range of most cartridges (the range where it goes transonic, usually), keeping them within a circle more-or-less matching the mechanical accuracy of the gun.
**Which, granted, is pretty much the same gun, but doesn't use STANAG magazines and lacks several other minor features that make it a dedicated Police weapon.
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Old 12-28-2017, 08:31 PM   #242
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Default Re: [Modern Firepower] Technothriller gear for secret DHS team in 2017

This gentleman apparently made one for a 7600 in .270
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cw2I-mzGZvM

Here is his website for ordering things from him, with a nice pic of the rifle in question

https://www.doublercustom.com.au/Rem...5_Mod-W17.aspx

I see lots of 10round magazines on Ebay, not 20 sadly
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Old 12-29-2017, 07:22 AM   #243
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Default Re: [Modern Firepower] Technothriller gear for secret DHS team in 2017

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This gentleman apparently made one for a 7600 in .270
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cw2I-mzGZvM

Here is his website for ordering things from him, with a nice pic of the rifle in question

https://www.doublercustom.com.au/Rem...5_Mod-W17.aspx

I see lots of 10round magazines on Ebay, not 20 sadly
For old-school hunting rifles, the sticking point does appear to be the difficulty acquiring high-capacity magazines, as they are hardly sought after by typical hunters.

You can get the Browning BLR chambered in many calibers, up to the excellent 7mm Remington Magnum, but with Shots 3-5, it doesn't make much of a battle rifle. And from what I can tell, if the magazines were any larger, they'd make it hard to work the lever smoothly, anyway.

Semi-automatics exist in chamberings like the .270 WSM, 7mm-08 Remington and 7mm SAUM, but if they are designed for hunting, they'll rarely offer larger magazines than 5-rd.

How difficult is it to design and make a high-capacity magazine for a rifle where no commercial magazine models exist to imitate?

What kind of Armoury (Smallarms) check are we talking?

Do we need the Invention rules and Engineer skill? If so, what complexity?
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Last edited by Icelander; 12-29-2017 at 07:33 AM.
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Old 12-29-2017, 07:57 AM   #244
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The gunsmith I linked to had made a high capacity .270 Win magazine for his Remington 7600

Numerous 8-10 round magazines for the 7600 exist

So it would be far from an insurmountable challenge I expect to make a 20 round magazine

I'd guess probably be a Armoury Small arms with a say -4 penalty and a machinist check if I was forced to guess
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Old 12-29-2017, 09:18 AM   #245
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Default Re: [Modern Firepower] Technothriller gear for secret DHS team in 2017

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Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
How difficult is it to design and make a high-capacity magazine for a rifle where no commercial magazine models exist to imitate?
Extended Magazines, p155 of High-Tech. Two Armoury rolls, one for design and one for building. That assumes the rifle has exchangeable magazines. If it does not, you're going to need to do surgery on the stock.

Edit: Here's an example of an extended magazine where it looks as if someone didn't notice he'd failed the first Armoury roll, and built a 90-round AK-47 magazine by welding three 30-round ones end-to-end.

Last edited by johndallman; 12-29-2017 at 09:40 AM.
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Old 12-29-2017, 10:40 AM   #246
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Default Re: [Modern Firepower] Technothriller gear for secret DHS team in 2017

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Extended Magazines, p155 of High-Tech. Two Armoury rolls, one for design and one for building.
Ah, excellent! I didn't remember that was there. Thanks.

It doesn't say anything about how long an unmodified design phase and a manufacturing phase are. I'll guess that the latter depends heavily on tools, but what ought one assume allows an Armoury design roll without a penalty for Time Spent?

I'd modify the difficulty for rounds that are operating at the limit of the magazine length, challenging to feed reliably or otherwise known to be harder to run in an autoloader, like the 7mm Remington Magnum, .300 RSAUM, .300 WSM, .300 Winchester Magnum or .338 Lapua Magnum.

As some of these have challenged established commercial manufacturers to turn out, I might even require an Engineer skill check to design them.

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That assumes the rifle has exchangeable magazines. If it does not, you're going to need to do surgery on the stock.
Internet sources sometimes do not specify if a hunting rifle has a detachable box magazine or a fixed one.

I'm assuming that the Browning BAR, Browning BLR, Remington 740/7400/750 and the Remington 7600 all have detachable box magazines. Is that not right?

What rifles that you are likely to buy in the modern day have fixed box magazines?

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Edit: Here's an example of an extended magazine where it looks as if someone didn't notice he'd failed the first Armoury roll, and built a 90-round AK-47 magazine by welding three 30-round ones end-to-end.
Ah, indeed.

Without GM-imposed TDM for operating at the edge of the performance envelope, it would be trivial for someone with Armoury -18, such as one of the supersoldiers, to quickly design and built Fine (Reliable) extended magazines in .300 Win Mag or .338 Lapua Magnum. Or, for the AR-10 platform, .300 RSAUM or .300 WSM. And it would cost less than $3,000 for a weapon chambered for them, probably.

As simple Malf. Crit versions of semi-automatic rifles with extended magazines that feed such long, powerful long-range cartridges are either more-or-less unavailable or are sold only as high-end custom rifles that cost well north of $10,000, that might be unrealistic.
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Old 12-29-2017, 03:06 PM   #247
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Default Re: [Modern Firepower] Technothriller gear for secret DHS team in 2017

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It doesn't say anything about how long an unmodified design phase and a manufacturing phase are. I'll guess that the latter depends heavily on tools, but what ought one assume allows an Armoury design roll without a penalty for Time Spent?
Looking at the Inventions rules, I'd feel tempted to extrapolate them downwards to a new Very Simple category. This is only for simple modifications and other obvious things, where there's no need for a new "theory" and one can proceed directly to the prototype, using Armoury. 1d-2 days seems plausible.
Quote:
I'm assuming that the Browning BAR, Browning BLR, Remington 740/7400/750 and the Remington 7600 all have detachable box magazines. Is that not right?
The Browning BAR and BLR do have detachable boxes; so does the Remington 7600, and the Internet won't cooperate with me about the 740/7400/750 today.
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What rifles that you are likely to buy in the modern day have fixed box magazines?
Don't know. I'm much more interested in TL6 firearms than TL8 ones as a rule.
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As simple Malf. Crit versions of semi-automatic rifles with extended magazines that feed such long, powerful long-range cartridges are either more-or-less unavailable or are sold only as high-end custom rifles that cost well north of $10,000, that might be unrealistic.
I think this is more because nobody wants them. They're specialised sniper rounds, which means the market is in bolt-actions, because sniper tactics don't require firing several shots quickly. They also have lots of recoil, which means, for normal people, firing quickly doesn't actually help score long-range hits.
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Old 12-30-2017, 09:31 AM   #248
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Default Re: [Modern Firepower] Technothriller gear for secret DHS team in 2017

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Originally Posted by johndallman View Post
Looking at the Inventions rules, I'd feel tempted to extrapolate them downwards to a new Very Simple category. This is only for simple modifications and other obvious things, where there's no need for a new "theory" and one can proceed directly to the prototype, using Armoury. 1d-2 days seems plausible.
Sounds good to me.

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Originally Posted by johndallman View Post
The Browning BAR and BLR do have detachable boxes; so does the Remington 7600, and the Internet won't cooperate with me about the 740/7400/750 today.
Probably have more luck Googling the Model 740, Model 7400 or Model 750 seperately. All are more or less the same gun, but seem to have had the name changed for marketing reasons every time some superficial change was introduced. As far as I can tell, all of them have detachable box magazines.

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Originally Posted by johndallman View Post
I think this is more because nobody wants them. They're specialised sniper rounds, which means the market is in bolt-actions, because sniper tactics don't require firing several shots quickly. They also have lots of recoil, which means, for normal people, firing quickly doesn't actually help score long-range hits.
I don't think that's quite it. The various magnum load AR builds by NEMO, the Alexander Arms Ulfbehrt in .338 Lapua Magnum, the Armalite AR-10T in .300 RSAUM and similar rifles have drawn a lot of attention at SHOT shows and in gun rags. There is definately an enthusiatic subculture that enjoys the idea of rapid fire maximum firepower, even if they are just punching steel at long-range. In terms of the total market, they are small segment, but no less valid than some of the arcane shooting competitors with very special requirements.

No, the problem is that the .300 RSAUM, .300 WSM and similar magnum builds in AR-10 type rifles that graced gun magazine covers in 2009-2014 or so had severe reliability issues. Magazines wouldn't feed or the long rounds wouldn't chamber right. And that's professionally made rifles and magazines, by someone who presumably has an expert on staff.

As for the newer offerings, I haven't heard yet whether Alexander Arms, Albert Arms, NEMO, THOR, Falkor or the other luxury/tactical gun manufacturers have solved these reliability issues for their $10,000+ rifles. They are new enough so that most of the data is from gun writers who may or may not be paid by the manufacturer and, in any case, are shooting only a few rounds under very controlled range conditions with gun and ammo chosen by the rifle maker.
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Last edited by Icelander; 12-30-2017 at 06:29 PM.
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Old 01-01-2018, 07:53 PM   #249
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Default Re: [Modern Firepower] Technothriller gear for secret DHS team in 2017

It's pretty easy to change the bottom metal on most "hunting rifles" to one that takes AICS magazines, which are a very popular standard magazine. Trivial actually; they are usually a drop-in part. Voila, you have 10-round detachable magazines on a hunting rifle. Alpha Industries makes some of the best ones, albeit only in a few calibers. (.308 and .338 are the most common.) See GA Precision for a lot of examples of Remington 700s with AICS bottom metal. Heck, MagPul makes them, too. This all holds true for most other common modern hunting rifles, which means most common bolt-action tactical rifles, too, assuming that you can find one that lacks a detachable magazine to begin with nowadays.

But any .308 magazine will also take anything derived from a .308 parent cartridge, like .260 Remington (very similar to 6.5mm Lapua or 6.5mm Creedmor), 7mm-08 (which is very similar to .270), .243 Winchester, .358 Winchester, .338 Federal, 45 Raptor (which is a lot like .458 SOCOM, but does need a modified magazine follower), or 6.5mm Creedmor (which being derived from the very similar .30 TC is close enough to .308). So really, to get a highly accurate 20-round semiautomatic in such calibers you just need to re-barrel an AR-10, which is also almost trivial. Well, assuming that you're using loads without too long of an overall length, but I know that .338 and .358 ARs have been made, by Wilson Tactical if no one else. Get a barrel wrench from Brownells and change them yourself. The .260 Remington is very popular in ARs, and is currently fighting 6.5mm Creedmor for market supremacy. (The 6.5mm Lapua seems to be disappearing from the US market.) The .243 has the problem of short barrel life so it has lost popularity.

And then remember, all you need to do to change calibers on an AR is to swap the upper, so you could have a quiver full of uppers of various calibers.

Also, for the record, my vote is that anything from Wilson Combat deserves the Fine rating.

Personally, if I wanted a hard-hitting long range AR-15 I'd be far more interested in 6.5mm Grendel than .224 Valkyrie. But I'm a 6.5mm fanboi. The .224 does have impressive external ballistics, granted, but I bet it burns through barrels at a startling rate.

Icelander, have you ever considered that your GURPS habit has lead you to be unusually familiar with U.S. gun culture? To a level that might disturb a lot of your countrymen? :)

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Old 01-02-2018, 10:19 AM   #250
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Default Re: [Modern Firepower] Technothriller gear for secret DHS team in 2017

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Icelander, have you ever considered that your GURPS habit has lead you to be unusually familiar with U.S. gun culture? To a level that might disturb a lot of your countrymen? :)
Oh, do tell...
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