Yrth In Spaaacccceee!

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

Not legal in 4e. You need a MW capable turbine under that waterfall.

What's the s wattage of a windmill or watermill? Those are machines using power of the windwheel or waterwheel . . .

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

What's the s wattage of a windmill or watermill? Those are machines using power of the windwheel or waterwheel . . .

Typically 5 or 10 kilowatts. The largest ones ever built could break 100 kW, but not by much.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by malloyd

Typically 5 or 10 kilowatts. The largest ones ever built could break 100 kW, but not by much.

So a steady supply of 50-100 FP/hour. Sounds useful. Sounds better than Recover Energy in a couple of important ways.

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

So a steady supply of 50-100 FP/hour. Sounds useful. Sounds better than Recover Energy in a couple of important ways.

Except Draw Power costs you 60 FP/hour to maintain, what with that 1/minute not reduced by skill strain cost. And that the subject is a spell, not the mage, so it doesn't recover your energy, or even allow you to feed multiple spells.

I've expressed by opinions of the brokenness of the Energy College spells before, but in this particular case it doesn't seem that bad. I'm not sure "you can pay 60 FP per hour to maintain a spell that would otherwise cost you a few hundred FP per hour to keep up, provided you are close to a gigantic waterwheel and willing to suffer from having two spells on instead of just one" is particularly unbalanced. You can probably find something worthwhile to use it for, but it's going to take some thought.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

So a steady supply of 50-100 FP/hour. Sounds useful. Sounds better than Recover Energy in a couple of important ways.

In addition to what malloyd said (which was all true) Draw Power doesn't even work the way that vicky wants. Many other people have wanted it to work that way too.

Draw Power does not accumulate energy over time (though Minor Draw from Urban Magics does). Draw Power supplies FP to a Spell on a 1 second timeframe. You need at least 360 kw to get even 1 FP per second and there is no storing it up over time until it becomes a useful quantity.

You might consider Minor Draw Power to be a relatively successful attempt to bypass these limitations.

[vicky_molokh]

Hmm. Sorry then. I shouldn't've jumped in, given that I knew I'm not well-versed in Magic magic.

[maximara]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

In addition to what malloyd said (which was all true) Draw Power doesn't even work the way that vicky wants. Many other people have wanted it to work that way too.

Draw Power does not accumulate energy over time (though Minor Draw from Urban Magics does). Draw Power supplies FP to a Spell on a 1 second timeframe. You need at least 360 kw to get even 1 FP per second and there is no storing it up over time until it becomes a useful quantity.

You might consider Minor Draw Power to be a relatively successful attempt to bypass these limitations.

The spell to tap into stored power is Steal Power. If you think about it there is an issue with Steal Power; does it work on stored mechanical energy?

Ie could you cast it on a building tapping into the force "stored" by gravity? A kW is a joule which is 1 Newton over a distance of 1 meter.

[Prince Charon]

Originally Posted by malloyd

Except Draw Power costs you 60 FP/hour to maintain, what with that 1/minute not reduced by skill strain cost. And that the subject is a spell, not the mage, so it doesn't recover your energy, or even allow you to feed multiple spells.

I've expressed by opinions of the brokenness of the Energy College spells before, but in this particular case it doesn't seem that bad. I'm not sure "you can pay 60 FP per hour to maintain a spell that would otherwise cost you a few hundred FP per hour to keep up, provided you are close to a gigantic waterwheel and willing to suffer from having two spells on instead of just one" is particularly unbalanced. You can probably find something worthwhile to use it for, but it's going to take some thought.

Of course, you could enchant an item with Draw Power and Power (the latter means that you don't have to supply the fatigue to run it), and use that. Yes, I know Draw Power doesn't have an Item listed, but if the GM is inclined to allow it, you just need to work out the particulars - I'd say the same type of items as Steal Power, and a cost of around 1,200 to 2,000, depending on how common the GM wants it to be.

[maximara]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

The real question becomes the rate of technological change. If the mages of Yrth possess a way to destroy explosives like gunpowder, the nations of Yrth are not going to develop solid chemical rockets (liquid chemical rockets are another story). It is not that hard to imagine an Ignite Explosive spell that is an Area spell of the Fire College that costs 1/10 FP (allowing a mage to spend 10 FP to ignite every explosive within 100 yards of the mage).

If the mages of Yrth possess an Ignite Explosive spell, then you have a divergent technology that breaks off at TL3. Using magic as the basis of technology, you could have a TL(3+7)^ civilization develop on Yrth. Of course, they would have to avoid spells of mass destruction that would knock them down to TL0.

IMHO this overlooks a key component of how fast technology changes: communication. The Copy spell and printing press are huge factors. Propaganda can be far more powerful then gunpowder.

Magic brings in the issue of pressurized explosives which Ignite Explosive could be totally useless against because there wouldn't be anything to ignite.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by maximara

The spell to tap into stored power is Steal Power. If you think about it there is an issue with Steal Power; does it work on stored mechanical energy?

Ie could you cast it on a building tapping into the force "stored" by gravity? A kW is a joule which is 1 Newton over a distance of 1 meter.

If flywheels are a "normal" way of storing energy at a particular TL then Draw Power for that TL will work on flywheels. I seem to recall stats for flywheels in Ve2.

Theoretically "stored" energy is big no. The target has to be a device designed to store and release energy.