Unarmed Combat with weapons - Page 2

larsdangly · 12-05-2018, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by platimus

This was my thinking as well. UC applies to punches and kicks only if you have a weapon or shield in one hand.

Agreed. I understand it conflicts in detail with RAW, but I'm cool with allowing it and don't think it seriously adds a new, unintended advantage to the UC talents. It just means your cool martial arts character can deliver a kick without putting down their bullwhip or whatever.

Tenex · 12-05-2018, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by platimus

This was my thinking as well. UC applies to punches and kicks only if you have a weapon or shield in one hand.

I guess this would be the TFT version of Captain America.

Interesting concept. There was a thread awhile back where there was some debate on whether UC could be done while wearing armor. I argued that it could, but Guy found the argument unpersuasive.

I suppose someone smarter than me can run the numbers on how much (or if) a shield would unbalance things.

platimus · 12-05-2018, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenex

I guess this would be the TFT version of Captain America.

Interesting concept. There was a thread awhile back where there was some debate on whether UC could be done while wearing armor. I argued that it could, but Guy found the argument unpersuasive.

I suppose someone smarter than me can run the numbers on how much (or if) a shield would unbalance things.

I'm not sure what you're getting at but the quoted sentence from me was not phrased very well. Horribly, actually. If you read Lars' posts, he does a better job of saying what I meant but I'll try to re-phrase myself...

I would allow UC to apply to punches and kicks even if the fighter is wearing armor and had a weapon or shield in one hand. Only kicks if the fighter has a something in both hands. UC Throws? No. UC Evade? No. Is this the RAW? No. Is this a House-Rule sub-forum? Yes.

Tenex · 12-06-2018, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by platimus

I'm not sure what you're getting at but the quoted sentence from me was not phrased very well. Horribly, actually. If you read Lars' posts, he does a better job of saying what I meant but I'll try to re-phrase myself...

I would allow UC to apply to punches and kicks even if the fighter is wearing armor and had a weapon or shield in one hand. Only kicks if the fighter has a something in both hands. UC Throws? No. UC Evade? No. Is this the RAW? No. Is this a House-Rule sub-forum? Yes.

I think you and I are pretty much in agreement. But to parse the nuances becomes TLDR.

JLV · 12-07-2018, 05:16 PM

My experience with martial arts is that there are unarmed techniques (punches, kicks, blocks, evades, grapples, etc.) and armed techniques (tonfa, nunchuks, throwing stars, swords, spears, etc.). I think the existing rules handle these quite well (an unarmed skill set is depicted in the various UC levels, and a sword technique is reflected in the sword talent at various levels). Why complicate the situation unnecessarily? Especially given the 5-second turn length (which is NOT GURPS' one-second turns and therefore doesn't require specific moves to be simulated -- a LOT can happen in five seconds in any kind of fight).

zot · 12-12-2018, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenex

I guess this would be the TFT version of Captain America.

Interesting concept. There was a thread awhile back where there was some debate on whether UC could be done while wearing armor. I argued that it could, but Guy found the argument unpersuasive.

I suppose someone smarter than me can run the numbers on how much (or if) a shield would unbalance things.

A player in my group asked about UC + shield just a little while ago and mentioned Captain America. I cited the "empty hands" requirement but said I'd be happy to house-rule that in for his PC. It's a cool concept.

hcobb · 12-12-2018, 12:18 PM

A character who starts with Unarmed Combat III needs to climb to 40 attribute points and add two skills to get to Unarmed Combat V.

That's 8300 + 1000 or 9300 XPs. At the civilian rate of 500 XPs per year this takes 19 years.

How do you survive that long against ranged attacks for which you don't even have a shield to defend against?

IQ 13 Shield Mastery(2):
* All attacks against your front hexes are at -2 DX while you have a shield equipped and you stop 2 more hits per attack than your base shield. (Replaces the -1/+1 from Shield Expertise)
* When defending with a shield the attacker's roll is still only 4/DX (at -2 as per above), but you also roll 3/DX against each attack. If you make your roll by more that the attacker you parry the attack. If you make your roll by four more than the attacker then he must roll as if disarmed by a weapon master to retain his weapon. (You will drop or break your shield if you roll 17 or 18.)
* Your shield rush targets must roll one more die to retain their footing. (Rather than the -2 from Shield Expertise)
* You can throw a shield rush as per thrown weapons. If you make your roll by four or more the shield bounces back to you and you can use it the next turn.
Prerequisite: Shield Expertise, DX 14 or more.

Tenex · 12-13-2018, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hcobb

IQ 13 Shield Mastery(2):
* You can throw a shield rush as per thrown weapons. If you make your roll by four or more the shield bounces back to you and you can use it the next turn.

I like the idea of shield mastery (and will probably steal this but for the thrown shield aspect). I don't think this particular aspect fits. It seems too much focused on creating a Captain America character. Let someone create Cap if they want, but a skill shouldn't have qualities developed solely (IMO) for the enhancement of one particular character concept.

platimus · 12-13-2018, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenex

I like the idea of shield mastery (and will probably steal this but for the thrown shield aspect). I don't think this particular aspect fits. It seems too much focused on creating a Captain America character. Let someone create Cap if they want, but a skill shouldn't have qualities developed solely (IMO) for the enhancement of one particular character concept.

I think I agree. The bounce back thing goes a tad too far for the sort of sword and sorcery game I'd like to play. If one wants to use TFT to play a super-hero game, it's probably perfect.

I dunno. In the MCU movies, I think Cap uses some sort of magnet to retrieve the shield. That's the impression I got. I'm sure it's completely different in the comics. If I were trying to faithfully recreate Cap with TFT rules, I would just allow a shield to be thrown, doing bare-hand, ST-based damage. Cap's pretty strong so his damage would be higher than mere mortals. At the same time, Caps shield is very special so I'd build it out like a magic item. At least one of the magical properties would involve the shield's boomerang-like return to the thrower.

hcobb · 12-13-2018, 02:42 PM

Strange thought for the day: Captain America's shield is a haunted weapon. Only question is whose ghost?

or ...

The $15k/ten week version of Quiver of Replenishment can be cast on a thrown weapon. If the wielder makes a 3/IQ save after a throw the weapon returns to his hand. This is the only benefit to this enchantment, but four other enchantments can be cast on the same item, including weapon/armor enchantment.

Keeping with the Avenger's theme:
"Silver" Great Hammer (2d+2, ST 17 to use one handed)
1: Drop Weapon (limited to itself for those who are not "worthy")
2: Quiver of Replenishment(as above)
3: +5 damage
4: Flight
5: Lightning

12-07-2018, 05:16 PM	#15
JLV Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Arizona	Re: Unarmed Combat with weapons My experience with martial arts is that there are unarmed techniques (punches, kicks, blocks, evades, grapples, etc.) and armed techniques (tonfa, nunchuks, throwing stars, swords, spears, etc.). I think the existing rules handle these quite well (an unarmed skill set is depicted in the various UC levels, and a sword technique is reflected in the sword talent at various levels). Why complicate the situation unnecessarily? Especially given the 5-second turn length (which is NOT GURPS' one-second turns and therefore doesn't require specific moves to be simulated -- a LOT can happen in five seconds in any kind of fight).

12-12-2018, 12:18 PM	#17
hcobb Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Pacheco, California	Re: Unarmed Combat with weapons A character who starts with Unarmed Combat III needs to climb to 40 attribute points and add two skills to get to Unarmed Combat V. That's 8300 + 1000 or 9300 XPs. At the civilian rate of 500 XPs per year this takes 19 years. How do you survive that long against ranged attacks for which you don't even have a shield to defend against? IQ 13 Shield Mastery(2): * All attacks against your front hexes are at -2 DX while you have a shield equipped and you stop 2 more hits per attack than your base shield. (Replaces the -1/+1 from Shield Expertise) * When defending with a shield the attacker's roll is still only 4/DX (at -2 as per above), but you also roll 3/DX against each attack. If you make your roll by more that the attacker you parry the attack. If you make your roll by four more than the attacker then he must roll as if disarmed by a weapon master to retain his weapon. (You will drop or break your shield if you roll 17 or 18.) * Your shield rush targets must roll one more die to retain their footing. (Rather than the -2 from Shield Expertise) * You can throw a shield rush as per thrown weapons. If you make your roll by four or more the shield bounces back to you and you can use it the next turn. Prerequisite: Shield Expertise, DX 14 or more. __________________ -HJC Last edited by hcobb; 12-12-2018 at 12:30 PM.

12-13-2018, 02:42 PM	#20
hcobb Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Pacheco, California	Re: Unarmed Combat with weapons Strange thought for the day: Captain America's shield is a haunted weapon. Only question is whose ghost? or ... The $15k/ten week version of Quiver of Replenishment can be cast on a thrown weapon. If the wielder makes a 3/IQ save after a throw the weapon returns to his hand. This is the only benefit to this enchantment, but four other enchantments can be cast on the same item, including weapon/armor enchantment. Keeping with the Avenger's theme: "Silver" Great Hammer (2d+2, ST 17 to use one handed) 1: Drop Weapon (limited to itself for those who are not "worthy") 2: Quiver of Replenishment(as above) 3: +5 damage 4: Flight 5: Lightning __________________ -HJC Last edited by hcobb; 12-13-2018 at 02:51 PM.