healing/regeneration and non-surgical bullet/arrow expulsion

[Plane]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Now, figure out how much dead weight Wolverine would have picked up over the years
(though occasionally getting skeletonized and regenerating back probably takes care of it).

Pretty sure he doesn't need to get skeletonized to do it...

I CAN HEAR STUFF SLOSHING
INSIDE OF ME, TRYING TO KNIT
ITSELF TOGETHER.

I CAN FEEL THEM BULLETS
SCRAPING MY ADAMANTIUM-
LACED BONES AS MY BODY
TRIES TO EXPEL THEM.

If we don't consider this part of basic HP restoration, I did have one idea on how to do it...

We can use Exoteleport to Warp small objects...

net modifiers -80% below reduce Warp to a 20 point advantage.

-240% in limitations

Blind Only -50% (B89)
Drift -15% (B89)
Exoteleport -50%
Modified Capacity -30%
Range Limit -50% (10y)
Reduced Range 1/10, -30%; (1y, legal per PP68)
Trigger: Injury -15%

+160% in enhancements
Based on HT +20%
Blink +25%
No Strain +25%
Reliable 10 +50%
Tunnel +40%

modifiers for Affliction net +150%

+320% enhancements:
Advantage: Modified Warp (as above) +200%
Aura +80%
Reflexive +40%

-170% limitations:
Contact Agent -30%
Costs two Fatigue -10%
Costs two HP -20%
Blood Agent, Reversed -40%
Melee -30%
Onset: 1 minute -10%
Requires HT roll -10%
Super -10%
Uncontrollable -10%

Total cost of 25 points at 1/5 for being an "Internal Advantage" (can't Warp a bullet that you bled on if it's OUTSIDE you) and by making it an Alternative Ability to Rapid Healing or greater, you reduce that to a perk: I'd figure Uncontrollable could force you to switch to this to expel objects even if you'd rather be healing damage, and Reflexive could let you do it even if you didn't know a foreign object was inside you.

Expulsion (Psionic Powers 69) is another option, but the problem there is you only get 1 attempt per object (can't retry if it fails) and works a bit too quickly (sometimes takes time for Wolvie's HF to work bullets out) plus there's no cost (Wolverine logically is going to lose some HP/FP pushing bullets out, it just doesn't matter because he has crazy HP/FP regeneration.

[Tomsdad]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Now, figure out how much dead weight Wolverine would have picked up over the years (though occasionally getting skeletonized and regenerating back probably takes care of it).

heh every time it happens he leaves a small pile of fragments and bullets! Kind of like a very extreme full body cleanse/colonic irrigation



So OK to the OP I'd maybe have 1pt perk to for various super healing to handily expel any foreign objects while healing.

But what I'd also say is if the healing has a limitation based on certain materials I'd rule the expelling effect doesn't work on fragments and objects made of that material and if they stay in there your super healing doesn't work (i.e you hav eto go digging for them if you want them out and your healing to deal with teh injury.

[Varyon]

Whether basic Regeneration - or, more likely Regeneration with Regrowth - automatically pushes things out of your body (or breaks them down, or whatever) or not is ultimately up to the GM. One of the few cases where it would make a significant difference would be with impaling weapons that get stuck (be it due to being sw imp, a barbed arrow/spearhead, or whatever), as it allows you to remove the offending object without a skill check (against Surgery, typically, although some GM's may allow for First Aid/Physician) or taking half the damage again by simply waiting for your regeneration to push it out.

Personally, I'd be inclined to say Regeneration alone is insufficient (and thus stuff gets "stuck," requiring surgery of some sort to later remove if you are so inclined), but Regrowth works just fine for pushing things out (even if you lack any level of Regeneration). Not being able to do this is probably worth a small Limitation on Regrowth - about -10%. Doing this without Regrowth is essentially a Perk version of Regrowth (although if you charge the full [40] for Regrowth - note many use a houserule to drop this to [10] - pushing stuff out is arguably worth [4] instead, which I'd be inclined to round up to [5]).

[Plane]

I understand why "I chop off my hand so when the new hand regrows there's no longer a tracker chip inside the new hand" would work...

But sometimes regeneration can take a long time, and be conspicuous, so being able to expel implants w/o lopping off the extremity seems like an advantage.

Especially since some might want to be able to prevent their regrowth from doing stuff like that.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by Plane

I understand why "I chop off my hand so when the new hand regrows there's no longer a tracker chip inside the new hand" would work...

But sometimes regeneration can take a long time, and be conspicuous, so being able to expel implants w/o lopping off the extremity seems like an advantage.

Especially since some might want to be able to prevent their regrowth from doing stuff like that.

The question is, should default Regrowth do this, or should it be an Enhancement? Given the narrative and mechanical effect of Regrowth is to restore the character back to normal regardless of injury* (provided he/she survives), I’d say the default should be sufficient, but if the GM disagrees, a +10% Enhancement should suffice.

*Certain “weird” attacks don’t, to my knowledge, interact with Regrowth, such as Afflictions, aging attacks, and radiation effects. If you want to lump implants and stuck projectiles in with that, that’s certainly an option.

[Plane]

Originally Posted by Varyon

the narrative and mechanical effect of Regrowth is to restore the character back to normal regardless of injury* (provided he/she survives)

Actually, since B80 only talks about regrowing "lost" limbs, it sounds like it wouldn't actually help recover a crippled limb any faster (or allow recovery of a permanently crippled one) unless you triggered it by adding to the damage and lopping the crippled part off.

IE if a cow bites and crushes my hand regrowth won't give me an uncrippled hand unless I let a lion eat it off entirely.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by Plane

Actually, since B80 only talks about regrowing "lost" limbs, it sounds like it wouldn't actually help recover a crippled limb any faster (or allow recovery of a permanently crippled one) unless you triggered it by adding to the damage and lopping the crippled part off.

IE if a cow bites and crushes my hand regrowth won't give me an uncrippled hand unless I let a lion eat it off entirely.

If you want to be pedantic to the point of uselessness, sure. Also, there are several bits in Powers that indicate Regrowth should help with crippled (but not severed) bits. For example, Regrowth Only (a Limitation) on Regeneration specifically notes how much it reduces crippling time, and Reattachment Only on Regrowth calls out mangled limbs (that is, permanently crippled but not necessarily detached) as not being recoverable as a difference from how Regrowth normally works.

Still, a GM who wants to rule unmodified Regrowth will only work on a cleanly severed limb is well within his rights to do so.

[Plane]

Originally Posted by Varyon

there are several bits in Powers that indicate Regrowth should help with crippled (but not severed) bits.
For example, Regrowth Only (a Limitation) on Regeneration specifically notes how much it reduces crippling time

P70 "repairs limbs, not HP" ?

Interpreting to mean lessens crippling recovery times?

The "Limited" limitation for regeneration's first sentence is "accelerates an advantage" which would mean what Regrowth adds.

Originally Posted by Varyon

Reattachment Only on Regrowth calls out mangled limbs (that is, permanently crippled but not necessarily detached) as not being recoverable as a difference from how Regrowth normally works.

Regrowth normally can't reattach body parts unless you take P71's "Reattachment" enhancement, otherwise it needs to rebuild them.

"Severed but intact" is a standard restriction when using that enhancement (although "intact" might benefit from some embellishment)

"useless if the part is mangled, vaporized, eaten," for Regrowth Only just means you have nothing "intact" (manged = non-intact, presumably) to reattach.

The distinction is that vaporized/eaten limbs are already detached, while mangled/unintact limbs can still be attached.

Voluntarily severing a limb is a choice, which would put mangled/unintact limbs in the same situation as vaporized/eaten ones: you have a stump which your body can regrow a limb from.

Look at wording for P71's Bane limitation:

"regrow a body part if it’s lost to .. "
"if the stump is exposed to .. "

A crippled body part isn't "lost" nor is there a "stump". It needs to be severed to make room.

That's also how the "Doubling" enhancement works. You need to "lose" the limb, it's a "missing part", you can't just start growing an extra arm any time you want w/o severing it first.

Powering Up does give a Talent bonus to the HT roll to recover from Crippling Injuries though, so it does sound like you could buy "Reliable" for Regrowth to get that HT bonus.

[Rupert]

The way I see it, Regrowth is a very expensive advantage, so much so that most people consider it considerably over-priced, and so it's ability should be interpreted generously. The advantage says 'limbs and organs', so I see no reason it shouldn't allow regrowth of damaged or destroyed skeletal muscles, bones, tendons, etc. as well even when a limb isn't completely gone.

At its core it's the ability to recover from permanently crippling injuries, so whether or not the crippled limb is gone or not shouldn't matter.

Whether regrowth includes expelling foreign matter, resetting cosmetic surgery, not scarring vs. scarring and so on is, I think, a matter for each instance of the power.

[Plane]

Originally Posted by Rupert

The way I see it, Regrowth is a very expensive advantage, so much so that most people consider it considerably over-priced

Funny thing is P71's Regrowth (Reattachment Only -50%) [20] is actually more expensive than P52's Independent Body Parts (Reattachment Only -50%) [18] yet and it takes 1 minute of holding the limb in place either way, unless you have Regeneration, which speeds up Regrowth's reattachment but not IT:IBP's.

To get 1-second reattachment w/ regrowth needs Regeneration (Fast) whose 50 pt cost could be reduced by 40% to 30... so that's a sum of 50 points, 15 points costlier than IBP (RO -50% IRA+50%) [35]

IBP also seems better despite being cheaper since it gives the limbs a separate HP score and injuries to them don't carry over to you like they do with Regrowth.

Not really sure why they built reattachment into IBP at all, would've been a lot less confusing if they just said to buy RG:RA separately for that benefit.

Originally Posted by Rupert

The advantage says 'limbs and organs',
so I see no reason it shouldn't allow regrowth of damaged or destroyed skeletal muscles, bones, tendons, etc. as well
even when a limb isn't completely gone.
At its core it's the ability to recover from permanently crippling injuries,
so whether or not the crippled limb is gone or not shouldn't matter.

B59 does distinguish between crippled limbs and LOST limbs, so Healing w/ Affects Self could cover that ground.

Regeneration boosts Regrowth to where a destroyed limb can be regained in the same time as Temporary Crippling (B422: until HP is back to 100%) but otherwise, Regenerationless Regrowth takes a lot longer...

1d+1 or 2d+2 months is longer than the 1d months a Lasting Crippling would take so I guess there wouldn't really be any benefit in that situation, so it's likely we're exclusively talking about it allowing "permanent crippling" to be recovered in slightly longer.

P71's "avoid or recover" ... any idea which of those B422 would be? B79 under Rapid Healing mentions "see if you can get over" so I'm thinking "recover" in which case "avoid" must be situations where crippling can occur through an avoidable means, like perhaps to resist Affliction (One Arm) or Innate Attack (Side Effect : One Arm) ?