Spending Bonus Character Points

[corwyn]

Originally Posted by Polkageist

Yes, the incredible range of HT related skills such as *checks notes* singing and lifting.

I'll concede the RAW point because... hell GURPS is so modular you're literally supposed to pick and choose the rules (somewhat). I will point out there there are guidelines for improving fixed attributes. And guidelines on why not to allow it. So yeah, it's definitely RAW.

I'll counter though the argument that HT+3 (speed -.75) is dramatically better than Very Fit. Marginally, sure, but the fatigue usage benefits of Very Fit essentially double your FP for a lot of tasks and environmental effects. Right there, "you lose FP at half the rate for <stuff>". That means 10FP is effectively 20FP, a 20 point value!

<crazy eddy voice> BIG SAVINGS!!

No, it's not. It only applies to a very specific group of losses, which don't tend to come up that much IME. No to magic, the big one, or chi. No to losses from poison or disease or attacks. You can't spend a half point so no to extra-effort (unless it's an ongoing effort) or to repeated attempts.

So basically:
exertion from combat
ongoing extra-effort
losses from heat, cold, running/swimming, travel, lack of sleep, suffocation, guard duty
maybe hunger

Some good uses, but hardly double Fatigue. Most of them are highly circumstantial. Only combat and maybe ongoing extra effort is going to routinely come up in most games.

[Black Leviathan]

Originally Posted by GnomesofZurich

Under RAW, I would say no, because those deductions would count against your disadvantage cap..

Disadvantage limits are just for character generation. I give my players all the disadvantages they're willing to flirt with once the game begins. I got no problem with them temporarily taking on a small disadvantage that reflects slower character growth.

My limitation is that I don't often arbitrarily allow character increases. You can take an IQ bump without perception, especially if you got it by working in a library between adventures, but I wouldn't count on that perception being attainable without a good explanation later.

[GnomesofZurich]

Originally Posted by Black Leviathan

Disadvantage limits are just for character generation. I give my players all the disadvantages they're willing to flirt with once the game begins. I got no problem with them temporarily taking on a small disadvantage that reflects slower character growth.

My limitation is that I don't often arbitrarily allow character increases. You can take an IQ bump without perception, especially if you got it by working in a library between adventures, but I wouldn't count on that perception being attainable without a good explanation later.

"Disadvantages Acquired in Play" from Exploits p.94 disagrees with you. You are free to do what you want in your game, that doesn't make it RAW.

I don't think wizards are particularly disadvantaged that, after getting Magery 6 at 10 points/level, it costs 20 points/level to raise IQ to raise all of your spell levels.

Edit: What I'm saying here is that disadvantages obtained during character creation give back points. Disadvantages incurred thereafter are typically gained through happenstance, and don't.

[ArchonShiva]

Very Fit in DFRPG has additional use with over strength bows: I had a ST10 Archer legitimately shooting a ST 35 bow for humongous damage, who would lose consciousness at the end of a fight if not for Very Fit halving the FP cost.

At any rate, -0.25 Speed is a disadvantage, these are capped, but I’d allow it if a character was at less than -50. If you’ll simply allow it without minding the disadvantage limit, I suggest not counting any primary or secondary attributes against the disadvantage limit either. It’s probably fine as lowered attributes have solid downsides. Will past 16 might be the exception.

[corwyn]

Originally Posted by ArchonShiva

Very Fit in DFRPG has additional use with over strength bows: I had a ST10
Archer legitimately shooting a ST 35 bow for humongous damage, who would lose consciousness at the end of a fight if not for Very Fit halving the FP cost.

How did that work? Wouldn't you be -25 to skill?

[ArchonShiva]

You would.

Charged Universal scroll of Bless +2, ST potion (lasts an hour) adds 1d+2 ST (+2 is from Bless, use another one if low roll), Agility potion adds 1d+2 DX (use Luck to reroll if low), ST+5 item from Spells, Strongbow +2, Elven bow +2, you’re down to the neighbourhood of what, -5?

With Forest Guardian +4, a balanced penetrating composite bow of accuracy and balanced arrows, I had enough skill to afford maybe -12 or so and still hit most of the time. With Weapon Master I’d do over 4d+10 and hit like a truck when I did. The main issue was losing 15-25 FP after every fight, and that’s where Very Fit was much needed.

GM scaled loot to challenge, and we went in hard. That game was pretty insane, I don’t actually recommend trying this at home. ST 27 bows are pretty feasible, though.

[corwyn]

Originally Posted by ArchonShiva

You would.

Charged Universal scroll of Bless +2, ST potion (lasts an hour) adds 1d+2 ST (+2 is from Bless, use another one if low roll), Agility potion adds 1d+2 DX (use Luck to reroll if low), ST+5 item from Spells, Strongbow +2, Elven bow +2, you’re down to the neighbourhood of what, -5?

With Forest Guardian +4, a balanced penetrating composite bow of accuracy and balanced arrows, I had enough skill to afford maybe -12 or so and still hit most of the time. With Weapon Master I’d do over 4d+10 and hit like a truck when I did. The main issue was losing 15-25 FP after every fight, and that’s where Very Fit was much needed.

GM scaled loot to challenge, and we went in hard. That game was pretty insane, I don’t actually recommend trying this at home. ST 27 bows are pretty feasible, though.

Our game isn't nearly that loot heavy so most of that is out - potions, Elven or even Balanced bow, enchantments. I'm not a pure Scout so my skill is only 16, so 18 with Rapid Fire and Heroic Archer. I could manage a ST 19 bow but even then, I think it would up the ante too much vs. the others in the party. Right now, with Great Haste, I match the damage of the two big fighters plus the versatility of a base 20 skill wizard - stun, blink, command, apportation, rooted feet, great haste, might, shield, night vision, haste.

Still, I might pick up a ST 19 regular bow just for really big stuff like a dragon where I don't need as much skill.

On a related note, when do damage dice conversions happen. If I have a ST 17 bow, that's 1d+2 thrust, +3 for com bow for 1d+5. That would be final damage of 2d+1. Does WM add 2 or 4 for high skill? 3d or 3d+1?

[Kalzazz]

+2, do the adds before convert

[Imbicatus]

Damage conversion is an optional rule in gurps that was not included in DFRPG. I find it’s better not to put it back in. It avoids questions like this and speeds up play.