Looking for House Rules on Attack and Defense rolls { was: Combat House rules }

[Keiko]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Not using maps seems not all that rare. IME.

Might be a regional thing but its pretty common with F2F groups around here. They're mostly D and D with a few Champions games and they function better with maps (even the Champions games I in table top used battle maps, different group though).

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Keiko

Might be a regional thing but its pretty common with F2F groups around here. They're mostly D and D with a few Champions games and they function better with maps (even the Champions games I in table top used battle maps, different group though).

I used to play in a Star Wars campaign where 3D piloting action was done without maps (and I do mean with caring about angles and stuff). Now, that was straining.

[Keiko]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

I used to play in a Star Wars campaign where 3D piloting action was done without maps (and I do mean with caring about angles and stuff). Now, that was straining.

One of the local gms had a massive gaming table marked with hexes with a ton of buildings, terrain and such all marked out properly. He did some amazing battle sets (there's no better word!). Absolutely beautiful and really added to the game he run. I only played in one Champions game but it was really quite an experience. Only game that was almost all combat that I've really gotten into.

[RyanW]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

It's for you to decide whether you want more detail/tactics or more streamlined combats. MA gives more tactical choices between various options. The Quick Contest will offer more streamlined combats (though I can't say just how streamlined - didn't do this past theorycraft).

Except, in my opinion, the OtBSW rule complicates combat more than simplifies. Every hit has to have its MoS calculated to determine the defense penalty.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Eh, not substantially more so than deceptive attack and rapid strike.

If I have skill 25, I can take -11 points in penalties and still roll at 16. If I know that their defenses aren't amazing I'm probably not going to take -10 deceptive. I might aim for the neck or something instead and only take a -6 deceptive. With a MoS based thing I basically always want to attack at full skill always.

[Keiko]

Originally Posted by RyanW

Except, in my opinion, the OtBSW rule complicates combat more than simplifies. Every hit has to have its MoS calculated to determine the defense penalty.

You have to roll Defense for pretty much every attack anyway.

"He made his attack roll by 3."
"I made my defense roll by 2. Hit."

vs

"I made my attack roll."
"I didn't make my defense roll. Hit."

It's not that much more complicated and you can do away with some of the options. On top of we find it more fun than the standard rules.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Keiko

You have to roll Defense for pretty much every attack anyway.

"He made his attack roll by 3."
"I made my defense roll by 2. Hit."

vs

"I made my attack roll."
"I didn't make my defense roll. Hit."

It's not that much more complicated and you can do away with some of the options. On top of we find it more fun than the standard rules.

That's not how Only the Best Shall Win actually worked though:
"He made is attack by 3. I have therefore have -1 to to my Parry. I parried."
Note that you would have parried with Only the Best Shall Win .

[Keiko]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

That's not how Only the Best Shall Win actually worked though:
"He made is attack by 3. I have therefore have -1 to to my Parry. I parried."

I misunderstood the rule then. But happy accident I guess because what we've been doing has worked well enough for our needs.

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

If I have skill 25, I can take -11 points in penalties and still roll at 16. If I know that their defenses aren't amazing I'm probably not going to take -10 deceptive. I might aim for the neck or something instead and only take a -6 deceptive. With a MoS based thing I basically always want to attack at full skill always.

You guys play with some extreme combat skills!

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

If I have skill 25, I can take -11 points in penalties and still roll at 16. If I know that their defenses aren't amazing I'm probably not going to take -10 deceptive. I might aim for the neck or something instead and only take a -6 deceptive. With a MoS based thing I basically always want to attack at full skill always.

Once you're likely to hit even with the penalty, you're often better off taking the penalty. That's no different from RAW.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Once you're likely to hit even with the penalty, you're often better off taking the penalty. That's no different from RAW.

I'm not following you. Are we talking about Only The Best Shall Win or what Keiko is doing (unmodified Quick Contest of Attack vs. Defense)? I was saying that the latter means it's not worth taking penalties. I think that the way the former worked was supposed to fix that. At any rate, given the psychology of players, I think it's more likely that they will take penalties when they know in advance what the effect of a penalty is. If it's a contest, then usually they aren't willing to except any penalties, IME.