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Old 10-05-2017, 01:03 PM   #51
sir_pudding
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Default Re: Options for GURPS Banestorm - 11 years later

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Originally Posted by LoneWolf23k View Post
Just because you think you have God as a Patron doesn't mean it's necessarily true. Could be "Divine Favor" just represents a different way of shaping Mana then common Wizardry, which is likely the opinion of more agnostic Mages.

But then that's my opinion. You're entitled to handle your Banestorm your way, I'll handle my Banestorm my way.
What happens when the character prays for a miracle that exceeds the limits of plausible deniability?
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Old 10-05-2017, 01:08 PM   #52
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Default Re: Options for GURPS Banestorm - 11 years later

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What happens when the character prays for a miracle that exceeds the limits of plausible deniability?
Like what? give an example. I'm not seeing any instances.
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Old 10-05-2017, 01:52 PM   #53
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Default Re: Options for GURPS Banestorm - 11 years later

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Like what? give an example. I'm not seeing any instances.
"Oh, Allah, the all-merciful, if you are willing, reveal the Mahdi to us, peace be upon him, in this our hour of need."
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Old 10-05-2017, 02:21 PM   #54
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Default Re: Options for GURPS Banestorm - 11 years later

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"Oh, Allah, the all-merciful, if you are willing, reveal the Mahdi to us, peace be upon him, in this our hour of need."




Note that Divine Favor is never guaranteed to give the exact response you requested (unless you bought that precise ability with points, and I don't think "Detect: Mahdi" is listed in the book as a purchasable ability). If it does derive its power from God, then He is only going to tell you as much about His plan as He wants mortals to know (which, if precedent is any guide, tends to be short on precise details when dealing with long-term matters). In a campaign where Divine Favor is actual divine favor, I, as a GM, would give a player who used it to ask that question a very elliptic reply indeed (similarly, requests to imminentize the escatcheon or promote someone to prophet status are unlikely to be granted as such). Since a very ellipitic reply is also what is expected if Divine Favor is actually powered by magic or belief or whatever, this winds up not helping much in determining its true nature.

Come to that, isn't the Mahdi supposed to appear on Earth rather than Yrth?
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Old 10-05-2017, 02:21 PM   #55
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Default Re: Options for GURPS Banestorm - 11 years later

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"Oh, Allah, the all-merciful, if you are willing, reveal the Mahdi to us, peace be upon him, in this our hour of need."
Oh that? That's a common prayer with a common answer: "I will reveal the Madhi my own due time. Seek not to counsel thy God."

If a PC rolls really really well on a request, They still don't get to have the entirety of written tradition bow to their will. Have their God call them to find (or be) a great person who will fill the hour of need without ushering in the end of the world. This is just basic divine favor and GMing.

On a bad roll, they get REALLY chewed out for impertinence.
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Old 10-05-2017, 03:12 PM   #56
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Default Re: Options for GURPS Banestorm - 11 years later

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Just because you think you have God as a Patron doesn't mean it's necessarily true. Could be "Divine Favor" just represents a different way of shaping Mana then common Wizardry, which is likely the opinion of more agnostic Mages.
I would imagine that the power is being shaped by a higher plane than mana. Being that Yrth is a place that pulls things in, it could be siphoning it from somewhere.
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Old 10-05-2017, 03:21 PM   #57
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Default Re: Options for GURPS Banestorm - 11 years later

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Note that Divine Favor is never guaranteed to give the exact response you requested (unless you bought that precise ability with points, and I don't think "Detect: Mahdi" is listed in the book as a purchasable ability). If it does derive its power from God, then He is only going to tell you as much about His plan as He wants mortals to know (which, if precedent is any guide, tends to be short on precise details when dealing with long-term matters). In a campaign where Divine Favor is actual divine favor, I, as a GM, would give a player who used it to ask that question a very elliptic reply indeed (similarly, requests to imminentize the escatcheon or promote someone to prophet status are unlikely to be granted as such). Since a very ellipitic reply is also what is expected if Divine Favor is actually powered by magic or belief or whatever, this winds up not helping much in determining its true nature.
If you take this too far, Divine Favor is useless, the power you call on has to be demonstratable for it to be worth the points at all.
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Old 10-05-2017, 03:33 PM   #58
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If you take this too far, Divine Favor is useless, the power you call on has to be demonstratable for it to be worth the points at all.
Certainly. But, in a world where magic is a demonstrable fact and and accepted part of life, one can perform a great many demonstrable "miracles" without being demonstrably divine. Again, Gurps Banestorm describes people who can zarking teleport after years of religious contemplation, but, because magic is a thing, this is not strong evidence of the existence of a god, much less theirs in particular.

Also: suppose your request is granted, and the ability identifies the Mahdi. How does anyone know the identification is correct? When the end times come, and he rules the world for nine years, you can say "I told you so", but until then, from the point of view of an outsider, pointing to a guy and declaring him to be the chosen one is pretty low on the list of impressive things you can do with your ability.
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Old 10-05-2017, 07:14 PM   #59
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Default Re: Options for GURPS Banestorm - 11 years later

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"Oh, Allah, the all-merciful, if you are willing, reveal the Mahdi to us, peace be upon him, in this our hour of need."
Okay, that's a power I'd call "GM Fiat." But the closest thing you get to that in the Divine Favor book is Divine Guidance, and that gives you "advice, an omen, a warning, or whatever the GM thinks is appropriate." So no, the GM does not have to give you written instructions on exactly where to find the Mahdi, no matter how much time you spend praying for an answer.

There's a reason people say "God works in Mysterious Ways." He doesn't have to give you a straight answer, or even the miracle you ask for.
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Old 10-06-2017, 12:58 AM   #60
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Default Re: Options for GURPS Banestorm - 11 years later

If your General Prayers always result in "miracles" that aren't any better than coincidence you paid too much for the ability.

Obviously there's a middle ground, but if general miracle workers were a thing on Yrth, wouldn't someone have noticed already?

This is a setting that charges an Unusual Background premium for high levels of Magery.
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