02-13-2019, 05:57 PM | #1 |
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Oz
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[Spaceships] Hydroponics and food vats
The existing rules in Spaceships offer four ways to supply food, water, and oxygen, and remove carbon dioxide and other wastes.
Does anyone have any helpful advice or suggestions to offer or make?
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Decay is inherent in all composite things. Nod head. Get treat. Last edited by Agemegos; 02-14-2019 at 04:13 PM. Reason: Typos |
02-13-2019, 06:05 PM | #2 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wellington, NZ
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Re: [Spaceships] Hydroponics and food vats
Quote:
I assume that you are using a five-ton slice for a habitat cabin space, based on how much steerage you get for it, but steerage cargo has at least some life support for it.
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Rupert Boleyn "A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history." |
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02-13-2019, 06:18 PM | #3 | ||
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Oz
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Re: [Spaceships] Hydroponics and food vats
Quote:
Quote:
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Decay is inherent in all composite things. Nod head. Get treat. Last edited by Agemegos; 02-13-2019 at 06:24 PM. |
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02-13-2019, 06:20 PM | #4 |
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: New Zealand.
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Re: [Spaceships] Hydroponics and food vats
While not specifically for spaceships I did some noodling on the topic here
http://forums.sjgames.com/showpost.p...&postcount=182 Some other posts in the thread touch on the subject as well.
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Waiting for inspiration to strike...... And spending too much time thinking about farming for RPGs Contributor to Citadel at Nordvörn |
02-13-2019, 06:28 PM | #5 | |
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Oz
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Re: [Spaceships] Hydroponics and food vats
Quote:
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Decay is inherent in all composite things. Nod head. Get treat. |
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02-13-2019, 10:57 PM | #6 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wellington, NZ
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Re: [Spaceships] Hydroponics and food vats
I can't recall if I posted this to the forums or not, but here are some workings a bit related to this. It's about making long-occupancy passenger seating rather than renewable food supplies.
----------------- Some thoughts about seats, and life support for small spaceships, using Spaceships: From Spaceships 7, etc. we know that half the mass of a cabin, etc., or a passenger seat is the life support, and the other half is the fittings (seats, beds, etc.). A habitat space masses either 8.333 tons or 7.5 tons (I think we can assume that the SM+6 habitat at one space in 5-tons is simply generous rounding, and as flavour text I write cabins in SM+6 ships as being unusually cramped). I'll go with a rounded average of 8.0 tons for cleaner maths. A passenger seat masses 0.8333 tons or 0.75 tons, or 1/10th as much as a habitat (so about 0.8 tons on average) So, given that a bunkroom fits four people into one habitat, and half of that is life support, a minimal indefinite recycling system for air and water masses (8.0 / 4) / 2 = 1.0 ton per person. Also, half a passenger seat is limited life support (24 hours of air and water), and masses 0.8 / 2 = 0.4 tons. Therefore, if you want a trip that takes longer than 2.5 days, you shouldn't use limited life support. Under that, and you should. Unfortunately, the rules for No Life Support for seats and cabins do not reduce the price of them, so there's no guidance as to the cost of life support. I'd be inclined to just use the same price per ton for the fittings and the life support, for simplicity. This makes limited life support mass 0.4 tons per man-day and cost $2,500 per man-day ($6,250/ton). The seat itself costs the same. Full life support masses 1.0 tons per person, and costs $20K per person (and also $20K per ton). A single bunk costs and masses the same. This means that a passenger seat, plus fairly spartan full life support, masses 0.4 + 1.0 = 1.4 tons, and costs 2,500 + 20,000 = $22,500, which we may as well just round to 20K to make the table nice and tidy (we'll just assume that the seats are basic, and the mini kitchenette and toilets are *really* basic). Here's a table of these seats in spaceship systems: Code:
Long-term Passenger Seating: SM +5 +6 +7 +8 +9 +10 +11 +12 +13 +14 +15 Seats 1 3 10 30 100 300 1K 3K 10K 30K 100K Techs 0 0 0 0 0 1 3 10 30 100 300 Cost ($) 20K 60K 200K 600K 2M 6M 20M 60M 200M 600M 2B We can also say that adding long-term life support to a Control Room costs 20K per station, and requires 1.0 ton of mass, probably in a habitat system (because they're easy to cut up).
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Rupert Boleyn "A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history." |
02-14-2019, 07:03 AM | #7 |
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Vermont, USA
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Re: [Spaceships] Hydroponics and food vats
It's not that they require that much mass, it's that they're getting what they paid for. Bunkrooms get air from noisy factory fans, can't set temperature and maybe it varies with other power loads, cheap purification of water and air (strange smells and tastes), 30-second showers, etc. Luxury cabins get scented air, unlimited water, silent responsive climate control, self-cleaning ducts and pipes, etc. Actually, water reserves could be a significant factor in the difference in mass between different cabins (for example, 30 seconds of googling says a filled 8-person jacuzzi weighs 4 tons -- that's a quarter of a luxury cabin's "life support" right there).
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02-14-2019, 11:10 AM | #8 |
Join Date: Feb 2016
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Re: [Spaceships] Hydroponics and food vats
I can tell you from personal experience that quality matters. Enlisted quarters in the USN are bunk rooms while officer rooms are cabins (double occupancy for junior and single for senior). A fleet admiral probably gets the equivalent of a single occupancy luxury cabin (no jacuzzis, but there is plenty of space).
People start to go crazy after six months at sea, which is one the reasons why USN prescription rates for antianxiety and antidepressant drug have skyrocketed, as the USN is extending deployment times to eight months. And you can usually go outside for a break, so the pressures are less than they would be on a comparable spacecraft. Other than the best of the best, like the astronauts that NASA trains, I doubt that many people will be able to tolerate living in a spacecraft bunk room for more than three or four months. Beyond that, it is blood on the bulkheads and brains on the ceiling time, as everyone will try to kill everyone else on board. |
02-14-2019, 11:19 AM | #9 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wellington, NZ
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Re: [Spaceships] Hydroponics and food vats
I wonder how USN bunking arrangements compare to those of the early 20th century. At the end of WWI the USN spent quite a bit of time working with the RN, both during and just after the war. The RN was quite impressed with many features of the USN's ships, such as the size of the crew messes and the fittings (collapsible so the mess could be used for many purposes, and of high quality). However, they were quite unimpressed with the USN's sleeping arrangements for their crews, which the RN felt were quite inadequate - so the RN's sailors got better sleep, but worse facilities in other ways.
I wonder if the USN ever successfully addressed this, if they ever considered it a problem.
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Rupert Boleyn "A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history." |
02-14-2019, 12:25 PM | #10 |
Join Date: Feb 2016
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Re: [Spaceships] Hydroponics and food vats
I am not sure, but I do know that Australia, Germany, Netherlands, etc. treats their sailors much better than the USA.
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Tags |
consumables, flat black, hydroponics, life support, spaceships |
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