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Old 06-25-2019, 06:02 AM   #11
Tywyll
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Default Re: Bonus Damage for High Strength

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Originally Posted by Chris Rice View Post
The concern is a simple one: it takes away the balance and clear differentiation of the original weapon table.

In the case of Broadsword v Greatsword; why would you waste your time with a greatsword which takes up both of your hands, when you could use a broadsword which now does 4-14 (av. 9 Damage) and have a shield or second weapon in the other hand. Previously the difference was 2-12 BS and 4-19 GS.

In the case of the Hammer; you now have a thrown weapon which does 4-9 damage, much more than any other thrown weapon.

Don't get me wrong, I've tinkered with this in the past, but all it ultimately does is tend to make every weapon more similar in damage capacity and related much more to ST level.

If you want a system in which damage done is directly based on ST with modifiers for weapon, I'm sure they're out there, but that's not the way TFT works. TFT works by allowing you to choose a particular weapon, with a particular damage range, at a particular ST level.

It also means you have a fair idea of the threat you face in an opponent by the weapons they are carrying. Once you allow ST bonuses, that is much less clear.

Still, it depends on what sort of game you want.
See, one thing I have never liked about TFT (or T&T) is the idea of steadily discarding your weapon for a 'bigger' one. People just don't work like that in real life or in any narrative I've read. It's worse even then the +X treadmill of D&D where you discard your grandfather's relic you've used since you were a strapling the first time you find a +1 weapon...and then you dump it when you hit a +2, etc. At least in that environment, it makes a kind of sense.

And to be fair, I'm not a huge proponent of the idea that damage is solely based on weapon type, something we've had beaten into rpgs by D&D. I'm far more into the idea that its the person wielding the weapon that is deadly. People die in real life from a single knife wound (or occasionally survive being stabbed 10's of times). So I'm not married to TFT's weapon charts in any particular fashion.

That said, in your example above, a greatsword on average knocks an opponent in chain or less armor down on a hit while the broadsword doesn't. That's a pretty big advantage.

As for knowing your opponent's capacity, I would say that could be handled by description. "This orc is holding a shortsword but holy cow, he's swole as ****!" That should give you an inkling what you are up against.
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Old 06-25-2019, 09:41 AM   #12
TippetsTX
 
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Default Re: Bonus Damage for High Strength

I'm using +1 damage for every 3 ST over the required amount for a given weapon (also capped at +3).
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Old 06-25-2019, 09:57 AM   #13
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: Bonus Damage for High Strength

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Rice View Post
The concern is a simple one: it takes away the balance and clear differentiation of the original weapon table.
That is a valid concern, and why I gave a somewhat steeper improvement to two-handed weapons.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Rice View Post
In the case of Broadsword v Greatsword; why would you waste your time with a greatsword which takes up both of your hands, when you could use a broadsword which now does 4-14 (av. 9 Damage) and have a shield or second weapon in the other hand. Previously the difference was 2-12 BS and 4-19 GS.
Because the greatsword still does 2.5 more points per hit on average and has a higher maximum, and those are both significant especially when your opponents have armor. The greatsword also lets you do sweeping blows. (And chuckle wickedly at people who use a main gauche. ;-) )

But by allowing the broadsword to do some more damage when swung with ST 16, it does make it a more interesting choice between the two. When stuck at 2d, the broadsword looks like the clearly inferior choice, even objectively a mistake.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Rice View Post
In the case of the Hammer; you now have a thrown weapon which does 4-9 damage, much more than any other thrown weapon.
Not much more. A ST 11 person throwing a mace does 1-11 damage, for higher maximum and only 0.5 points less average. A ST 16 person throwing a small axe would do the same damage, and with a mace would do 3-13 damage.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Rice View Post
Don't get me wrong, I've tinkered with this in the past, but all it ultimately does is tend to make every weapon more similar in damage capacity and related much more to ST level.
It does do that, but I'd say how much is a matter of degree and can be balanced (at least to match my own tastes) if done carefully.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Rice View Post
If you want a system in which damage done is directly based on ST with modifiers for weapon, I'm sure they're out there, but that's not the way TFT works. TFT works by allowing you to choose a particular weapon, with a particular damage range, at a particular ST level.
There are, for instance GURPS (which I like, though there I do tweak the two-handed damages up for the reason you pointed out).

And it is also the way TFT works for a few weapons unless you use the basic Melee rules for daggers, clubs, and bare-hand attacks.

And if you don't adjust weapons in a similar way, then daggers, clubs, bare-hand attacks and cestus start to not make sense compared to weapon damages (which was the subject of the other thread I linked to). e.g. if you hand a steel weapon to a big giant or a full demon, RAW they'll do less damage with it than they would with a club.

RAW hand a full demon a club and they do 8d+4 or 8d+5 damage. Give them a greatsword and they do 3d+1... less than their bare-hand attack.
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Old 06-26-2019, 12:07 AM   #14
Axly Suregrip
 
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Default Re: Bonus Damage for High Strength

Quote:
Originally Posted by TippetsTX View Post
I'm using +1 damage for every 3 ST over the required amount for a given weapon (also capped at +3).
This seems fair and elegant.
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Old 06-26-2019, 03:58 AM   #15
Tywyll
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Default Re: Bonus Damage for High Strength

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Originally Posted by TippetsTX View Post
I'm using +1 damage for every 3 ST over the required amount for a given weapon (also capped at +3).
How do you find it working? Also why 3 and not 2 (or 4)?

Last edited by Tywyll; 06-26-2019 at 04:19 AM.
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Old 06-26-2019, 08:09 AM   #16
TippetsTX
 
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Default Re: Bonus Damage for High Strength

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How do you find it working? Also why 3 and not 2 (or 4)?
None of my players have selected weapons where this would be a factor yet (based on their current ST).

I generally try to apply the 'rule of 3' to TFT rules where it makes sense... I like the parity. In this case, however, it feels like having much more than 9 points over the required ST for a given weapon is unlikely under the current rule assumptions.
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Old 06-26-2019, 09:36 AM   #17
kjamma4
 
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Default Re: Bonus Damage for High Strength

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Originally Posted by Tywyll View Post
See, one thing I have never liked about TFT (or T&T) is the idea of steadily discarding your weapon for a 'bigger' one. People just don't work like that in real life or in any narrative I've read. It's worse even then the +X treadmill of D&D where you discard your grandfather's relic you've used since you were a strapling the first time you find a +1 weapon...and then you dump it when you hit a +2, etc.
That's why I always like the concept of Weapons of Legacy from D&D. Your ancestral weapon grew in power as you did.

It's the same relic your grandfather carried - now possibly with more powers than when he carried it.

[Although as far as real life goes, two words - Apple Iphones]
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Old 06-26-2019, 10:28 AM   #18
TippetsTX
 
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Default Re: Bonus Damage for High Strength

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That's why I always like the concept of Weapons of Legacy from D&D. Your ancestral weapon grew in power as you did.

It's the same relic your grandfather carried - now possibly with more powers than when he carried it.
This is an interesting idea for a separate thread. Weapons with 'unlockable' abilities could be something that heroes spend XP on much like how wizards can add mana to their staff.
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Old 06-27-2019, 03:24 AM   #19
Tywyll
 
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Default Re: Bonus Damage for High Strength

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This is an interesting idea for a separate thread. Weapons with 'unlockable' abilities could be something that heroes spend XP on much like how wizards can add mana to their staff.
Ohhhh….that's a cool idea!
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Old 06-27-2019, 03:26 AM   #20
Tywyll
 
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Default Re: Bonus Damage for High Strength

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Originally Posted by kjamma4 View Post

[Although as far as real life goes, two words - Apple Iphones]
Counterpoint: Everything, even technology, is incredibly disposable in the modern age, so I don't think its a relevant comparison.

Also, to be clear, I'm not all for forcing someone to carry the same weapon forever either, but I'd rather they not constantly swap them out.

Sadly in D&D style worlds, ultimately you need to. And the narrative backs that. In those worlds, swords are iphones!
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