Leech + Cyclic

[oneofmanynameless]

How would you model an attack like a mummy's curse where it touches you and then, even after you've broken contact with it, you take damage at intervals as you gradually drain to heal it? On initial inspection it seems like just throwing Cyclic on Leech would make it accomplish this. Can Leech accept a Cyclic modifier?

[Varyon]

Is this actually meant to continuously heal the mummy? If not, you'd just base it on Innate Attack, not Leech. I don't think there's any RAW way to have infinite cycles, however, so you'll have to define how many cycles are involved.

I believe Leech is compatible with Cyclic, although you may wish to include some sort of surcharge to account for it healing you even when the target is on the other side of the planet.

[Nereidalbel]

Leech normally requires a proper grapple to apply. Throw in Malediction with Melee: C and 1 level of Reduced Time, and you get Leech that works by touching somebody. If your mummy has a Perk for No Rule of 16 and a high enough Will, victory is automatic until the range penalty from Malediction gets too high for the mummy to guarantee a win.

After that, just buy as many Cycles as you want, and you're set!

[oneofmanynameless]

Originally Posted by Varyon

Is this actually meant to continuously heal the mummy? If not, you'd just base it on Innate Attack, not Leech. I don't think there's any RAW way to have infinite cycles, however, so you'll have to define how many cycles are involved.

I believe Leech is compatible with Cyclic, although you may wish to include some sort of surcharge to account for it healing you even when the target is on the other side of the planet.

It is meant to continuously heal the mummy.

Originally Posted by Nereidalbel

Leech normally requires a proper grapple to apply. Throw in Malediction with Melee: C and 1 level of Reduced Time, and you get Leech that works by touching somebody. If your mummy has a Perk for No Rule of 16 and a high enough Will, victory is automatic until the range penalty from Malediction gets too high for the mummy to guarantee a win.

After that, just buy as many Cycles as you want, and you're set!

Say you do have to start a proper grapple to initiate the leech. Don't just have to touch. Wouldn't cyclic just cause the damage, and therefore the heal, to continue at cycles after the initial successful grapple regardless of the range?

Like, if you have malediction attack with cyclic on it you don't have to make opposed checks every cycle, you only make the check to initiate the attack and then the cycles happen automatically, right?

Also, if you have a melee innate attack with cyclic on it and you land the attack you do not have to maintain contact or land the attack on subsequent turns in order for the cycles to happen, they happen automatically.

So why would you need, with leech, to buy the ability to continually make the attack again and again at every interval, in order to justify having cyclic? Wouldn't buying malediction by itself (or with an appropriately high will and rule exemption for rule of 16 as you said) and automatically allow you to maintain the drain on someone at range as long as you continued to succeed your checks against them without needing to pay extra for cyclic?

[Nereidalbel]

Originally Posted by oneofmanynameless

So why would you need, with leech, to buy the ability to continually make the attack again and again at every interval, in order to justify having cyclic? Wouldn't buying malediction by itself (or with an appropriately high will and rule exemption for rule of 16 as you said) and automatically allow you to maintain the drain on someone at range as long as you continued to succeed your checks against them without needing to pay extra for cyclic?

Because Malediction requires a Concentrate, and Cyclic allows you to drain somebody without thinking about nothing but them every, single, second. It also removes your maximum number of victims, allowing you to potentially curse an entire team of thie...treasure hunters.

[oneofmanynameless]

Originally Posted by Nereidalbel

Because Malediction requires a Concentrate, and Cyclic allows you to drain somebody without thinking about nothing but them every, single, second. It also removes your maximum number of victims, allowing you to potentially curse an entire team of thie...treasure hunters.

Then what is the malediction for? Because Cyclic appears to cover all of the necessary effects by itself.

[Nereidalbel]

Originally Posted by oneofmanynameless

Then what is the malediction for? Because Cyclic appears to cover all of the necessary effects by itself.

Unmodified Leech requires a grappled, pinned, or otherwise helpless victim to work. Adding Cyclic would allow you to make the rate of drain increase over time, as you Leech 1 HP on the first turn, 1 HP twice on the second turn, 1 HP three times on the third turn, etc. Malediction removes the helpless target requirement, allowing your Cycles to affect somebody who runs away.

For Cyclic Leech, the most reasonable way to end the cycles is the break free of the grapple/pin/etc your opponent has on you. For Cyclic Malediction Leech, the most reasonable way to end the cycles is to win the QC. With a high-Will mummy with No Rule of 16, this may require you to be quite far away. The horizon is only a -3 to the mummy if he paid for Malediction 3!

[oneofmanynameless]

Originally Posted by Nereidalbel

Unmodified Leech requires a grappled, pinned, or otherwise helpless victim to work...

For Cyclic Leech, the most reasonable way to end the cycles is the break free of the grapple/pin/etc your opponent has on you.

But isn't this basically like saying, "This melee innate attack requires you to be in melee in order to deliver it. Therefore the most logical way to break the cyclic effect is to leave melee range."

Which doesn't make any sense if the attack is a "touch of disease" or "immolating punch" or "mummy's curse" where you have to be in melee to deliver the attack in the first place but the cycles continue once the attack lands regardless of whether you are "in range" or not.

In fact, no where in the cyclic modifier does it state that the delivery requirements of the original attack have to remain met in order for the cycles to continue, especially considering that that would defeat the point of the above examples. This is especially important because a burning AOE attack with cyclic (1 cycle per second, 10 cycles) is not the same as a persistent AOE attack. If they had to remain within the AOE (fulfill the "hit" requirements of the original attack) for the additional cycles to hit them then either persistent (+40%) is wildly under-priced compared to that variant of cyclic (+1000%) or that version of cyclic is wildly overpriced. The actual modifiers say that, for cyclic, once they've been hit by the attack they continue to be hit every second for 10 seconds; while with persistent the attack happens in that area every second for 10 seconds. The difference being, notably, that with cyclic they continue to be hit even if they leave the area of effect and could not be hit by the original attack.

[Nereidalbel]

Originally Posted by oneofmanynameless

But isn't this basically like saying, "This melee innate attack requires you to be in melee in order to deliver it. Therefore the most logical way to break the cyclic effect is to leave melee range."

Nope. The most logical way to end a burning Cyclic attack is to put out the fire, poison has some kind of cure, being frozen requires heat, etc. As for Leech, it specifically requires a pinned/grappled/helpless victim to work at all, unless you buy Malediction. Innate Attack, barring an Accessibility modifier, only requires that you succeed at a skill roll to hit and your target fails to make an active defense to work. There is a difference between "requires standard attack roll" and "requires specific circumstances, but has no roll to activate."

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by oneofmanynameless

How would you model an attack like a mummy's curse where it touches you and then, even after you've broken contact with it, you take damage at intervals as you gradually drain to heal it? On initial inspection it seems like just throwing Cyclic on Leech would make it accomplish this. Can Leech accept a Cyclic modifier?

This would require Cosmic (at a minimum of+100% and likely +300%), Cyclic, and probably Ranged (+40%).

You might be better served just making Leech an Aura-based attack instead.