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Old 12-07-2013, 09:27 PM   #1
Dalren
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Default Insubstaniality and Leech

What modifiers are required to make Leech viable while insubstantial? Obviously Affects Insubstantial is required on both Insubstantiality and Leech, but do you also need Partial Change to initiate the grapple or Malediction to use it without grappling? I'm specifically asking in regards to the normal touch range version of Leech, not the ranged version.
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Old 12-07-2013, 09:46 PM   #2
David Johnston2
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Default Re: Insubstaniality and Leech

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Originally Posted by Dalren View Post
What modifiers are required to make Leech viable while insubstantial? Obviously Affects Insubstantial is required on both Insubstantiality and Leech, but do you also need Partial Change to initiate the grapple or Malediction to use it without grappling? I'm specifically asking in regards to the normal touch range version of Leech, not the ranged version.
Well you'd need something to keep the target from just moving away.
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Old 12-07-2013, 09:49 PM   #3
Nereidalbel
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Ellicott City, MD
Default Re: Insubstaniality and Leech

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Originally Posted by David Johnston2 View Post
Well you'd need something to keep the target from just moving away.
Binding Attack (also with Affects Substantial) is probably the best bet.
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Old 12-08-2013, 05:12 AM   #4
Not another shrubbery
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Default Re: Insubstaniality and Leech

Immobilizing the target is very helpful. I'll add that you don't have to do so, though. Insubstantiality should allow you opportunities to filch some HP. You might want to consider extra levels, or Accelerated Healing, with it if you don't have a way to slow your targets down.
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Old 12-08-2013, 08:55 PM   #5
Jerander
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Rochester, MN
Default Re: Insubstaniality and Leech

Doesn't Leech require a bound, grappled, or non-resisting target? You'll have to meet that requirement even if you are Insubstantial.
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Old 12-08-2013, 09:49 PM   #6
Nereidalbel
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Ellicott City, MD
Default Re: Insubstaniality and Leech

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Doesn't Leech require a bound, grappled, or non-resisting target? You'll have to meet that requirement even if you are Insubstantial.
Hence the Binding Attack.
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Old 12-08-2013, 10:22 PM   #7
The Benj
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Platform Zero, Sydney, Australia
Default Re: Insubstaniality and Leech

Doesn't adding Ranged and Malediction obviate that limit? So one must surely be able to make it not have that limit in another way, that doesn't also make it ranged.
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Old 12-09-2013, 12:16 AM   #8
David Johnston2
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Default Re: Insubstaniality and Leech

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Originally Posted by The Benj View Post
Doesn't adding Ranged and Malediction obviate that limit? So one must surely be able to make it not have that limit in another way, that doesn't also make it ranged.
I don't think so. Making it ranged gets around the problem of maintaining contact which otherwise is still there.

Last edited by David Johnston2; 12-09-2013 at 12:33 AM.
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Old 12-09-2013, 04:57 AM   #9
Not another shrubbery
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Default Re: Insubstaniality and Leech

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Originally Posted by Jerander View Post
Doesn't Leech require a bound, grappled, or non-resisting target? You'll have to meet that requirement even if you are Insubstantial.
It just requires maintained contact. An insubstantial character ought to have chances to do this without the target being restrained, although that condition of course makes things easier.
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Old 12-09-2013, 05:00 AM   #10
The Benj
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Platform Zero, Sydney, Australia
Default Re: Insubstaniality and Leech

The write-up explicitly says that in combat, you have to grapple or pin to use Leech. Which is obviously not viable while you're intangible.
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