[House Rule'd Trait Rebuild] Leech

[Sunrunners_Fire]

I dislike the official version of Leech. However, I do like the idea of vampire-style attacks. So ...

Leech FP

Spoiler:  

Leech FP inflicts its' level in fatigue damage per second to the target provided the user can maintain ongoing physical contact. For every three fatigue points of injury inflicted on the target, the user recovers one fatigue point; excess fatigue points recovered are simply discarded.

"Leech FP 1 (3:1 Ratio) [10]"

• Fatigue Attack 0d+1 (Absorption (Recover FP Only), +40%; Cosmic (Ignores DR), +300%; Melee Attack (Cannot Parry), -5%; Melee Attack (Reach C), -30%; Nuisance Effect (Must maintain ongoing contact), -5%; Partial Damage (Only 1 Point), *0.25) [10]
• Cost: (0.25 * 10) * (1 + 0.40 + 3.00 - 0.05 - 0.30 - 0.05)

"Leech FP X (3:1 Ratio) [12 per X]"

• Fatigue Attack 0d+X (Absorption (Recover FP Only), +40%; Cosmic (Ignores DR), +300%; Melee Attack (Cannot Parry), -5%; Melee Attack (Reach C), -30%; Nuisance Effect (Must maintain ongoing contact), -5%; Partial Damage (Only X Points), *(X * 0.3)) [12 per X]
• Cost: ((X * 0.3) * 10) * (1 + 0.40 + 3.00 - 0.05 - 0.30 - 0.05)

Leech HP

Spoiler:  

Leech HP inflicts its' level in toxic damage per second to the target provided the user can maintain ongoing physical contact. For every two hit points of injury inflicted on the target, the user recovers one hit point; excess hit points recovered are simply discarded.

"Leech HP 1 (2:1 Ratio) [4]"

• Toxic Attack 0d+1 (Absorption (Recover HP Only), +40%; Cosmic (Ignores DR), +300%; Melee Attack (Cannot Parry), -5%; Melee Attack (Reach C), -30%; Nuisance Effect (Must maintain ongoing contact), -5%; Partial Damage (Only 1 Point), *0.25) [4]
• Cost: (0.25 * 4) * (1 + 0.40 + 3.00 - 0.05 - 0.30 - 0.05)

"Leech HP X (2:1 Ratio) [4.8 per X, round up]"

• Toxic Attack 0d+X (Absorption (Recover HP Only), +40%; Cosmic (Ignores DR), +300%; Melee Attack (Cannot Parry), -5%; Melee Attack (Reach C), -30%; Nuisance Effect (Must maintain ongoing contact), -5%; Partial Damage (Only X Points), *(X * 0.3)) [4.8 per X, round up]
• Cost: ((X * 0.3) * 4) * (1 + 0.40 + 3.00 - 0.05 - 0.30 - 0.05)

Leech (Ranged) would simply involve removing the melee attack and nuisance limitations, and then recalculating the costs. Leech FP (Ranged) would be [11] if only buying one level and [13.2 per level, round up] if buying more than one level. Leech HP (Ranged) would be [5] if only buying one level and [5.28 per level, round up] if buying more than one level.

I'm pricing Absorption (Recover FP Only) and Absorption (Recover HP Only) as half-value of the Damage Resistance enhancement, Absorption (Only Heal HP or FP) which is officially valued at +80%.

Opinions? Suggestions? Missing modifiers? Comments?

[Gnome]

Originally Posted by Sunrunners_Fire

I'm pricing Absorption (Recover FP Only) and Absorption (Recover HP Only) as half-value of the Damage Resistance enhancement, Absorption (Only Heal HP or FP) which is officially valued at +80%.

Opinions? Suggestions? Missing modifiers? Comments?

I'm thinking that Absorption applied to an attack should cost more than Absorption applied to DR. You can use it actively, meaning you don't have to wait for someone to attack and hit you for just the right amount of damage but not too much. Also, I'm not sure pricing "FP Only" or "HP Only" as half of "FP or HP" is valid.
I like the idea of a "leeching" enhancement on attacks to replace Leech as its own advantage, but I would peg it at +100% or more. Imagine applying this enhancement to an ordinary, ranged innate attack...

[Sunrunners_Fire]

Originally Posted by Gnome

I'm thinking that Absorption applied to an attack should cost more than Absorption applied to DR. You can use it actively, meaning you don't have to wait for someone to attack and hit you for just the right amount of damage but not too much. Also, I'm not sure pricing "FP Only" or "HP Only" as half of "FP or HP" is valid.

Good point. Hmm.

In support of the +40% value, PK pegs "Absorption (Heal FP Only)" as +40% in his article here.

Alternatively something like: "Absorption (Recover FP Only), +114%" or "Absorption (Recover HP Only), +114%"

• Cosmic (Can Purchase Absorption), +50%
• One Of:
  • Absorption (Healing Only), (+80%; HP Only, -20%; ! Based on Damage Taken, -80%; Based on Damage Inflicted, (+100%; Injury, not Damage, -20%) +80%) +64%
  • Absorption (Healing Only), (+80%; FP Only, -20%; ! Based on Damage Taken, -80%; Based on Damage Inflicted, (+100%; Injury, not Damage, -20%) +80%) +64%

If "Injury, not Damage, -20%" isn't considered valid, then it'd be +130% {(+50%) + (+80%)} to get the above.

Originally Posted by Gnome

I like the idea of a "leeching" enhancement on attacks to replace Leech as its own advantage, but I would peg it at +100% or more. Imagine applying this enhancement to an ordinary, ranged innate attack...

These are regular innate attacks. :)

If going with the +130% value for "Absorption (Recover ... Only)":

• Burning Attack 1d (Absorption (Recover HP Only), +130%) [12]
• Burning Attack 1d (Absorption (Recover HP Only), +130%; Cosmic (Ignores DR), +300%) [27]
• Burning Attack 1d (Absorption (Recover HP Only), +130%; Cosmic (Ignores DR), +300%; Malediction (Speed/Range Table), +150%) [34]
• Burning Attack 1d (Absorption (Recover HP Only), +130%; Cosmic (Ignores DR), +300%; Melee Attack (Cannot Parry), -5%; Melee Attack (Reach C), -30%; Nuisance Effect (Must maintain ongoing contact), -5%) [25]

[the_matrix_walker]

Originally Posted by Sunrunners_Fire

Good point. Hmm.

In support of the +40% value, PK pegs "Absorption (Heal FP Only)" as +40% in his article here.

Alternatively something like: "Absorption (Recover FP Only), +114%" or "Absorption (Recover HP Only), +114%"

• Cosmic (Can Purchase Absorption), +50%
• One Of:
  • Absorption (Healing Only), (+80%; HP Only, -20%; ! Based on Damage Taken, -80%; Based on Damage Inflicted, (+100%; Injury, not Damage, -20%) +80%) +64%
  • Absorption (Healing Only), (+80%; FP Only, -20%; ! Based on Damage Taken, -80%; Based on Damage Inflicted, (+100%; Injury, not Damage, -20%) +80%) +64%

If "Injury, not Damage, -20%" isn't considered valid, then it'd be +130% {(+50%) + (+80%)} to get the above.



These are regular innate attacks. :)

If going with the +130% value for "Absorption (Recover ... Only)":

• Burning Attack 1d (Absorption (Recover HP Only), +130%) [12]
• Burning Attack 1d (Absorption (Recover HP Only), +130%; Cosmic (Ignores DR), +300%) [27]
• Burning Attack 1d (Absorption (Recover HP Only), +130%; Cosmic (Ignores DR), +300%; Malediction (Speed/Range Table), +150%) [34]
• Burning Attack 1d (Absorption (Recover HP Only), +130%; Cosmic (Ignores DR), +300%; Melee Attack (Cannot Parry), -5%; Melee Attack (Reach C), -30%; Nuisance Effect (Must maintain ongoing contact), -5%) [25]

I think the point costs you're getting demonstrate this as being too cheep. It shouldn't cost less to heal yourself with a damage dealing attack (that could be used in a rapid strike, etc) than is is to heal yourself with no attack and a concentrate.

[Sunrunners_Fire]

Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker

I think the point costs you're getting demonstrate this as being too cheep. It shouldn't cost less to heal yourself with a damage dealing attack (that could be used in a rapid strike, etc) than is is to heal yourself with no attack and a concentrate.

Let me do a comparison then. :) The available self-heals (in combat time) are Damage Resistance 1 (Absorption) [9], Leech [25], Healing (Affects Self) [45] and Regeneration (Very Fast) [100]. Am I missing any?

• Regeneration (Very Fast) [100] is an always-on passive effect that makes no requirements in terms of actions, skill checks or harm to self/others. It has no cost to use outside of the initial point cost to purchase it.
  
  Regeneration (Very Fast) (Reduced Duration (1/60), -35%; Requires Ready, -10%; Requires Skill Roll, -10%; Trigger (Common; Dangerous), -30%) [20] ... works for one second per trigger, requires a maneuver, requires a successful skill roll and requires you to have inflicted injury to someone other than yourself for it to work.
• Healing (Affect Self) heals both yourself and others, cost fatigue, requires a skill check but doesn't require you to hurt others and can heal both injuries and diseases. (Affects Self Only) is a zero-cost feature, if I remember previous rulings from Kromm correctly.
  
  Healing (Affects Self Only, +0; Injuries Only, -20%; Trigger (Common; Dangerous), -30%) [15]. Only heals yourself, doesn't heal diseases and requires you to have inflicted injury on someone other than yourself in order to work. I'm going to call the rest of the differences a wash in terms of point costs.
• Damage Resistance (Absorption) requires DR 2 (A) [18] to heal one hit point of injury. It doesn't take an action, but does put yourself at risk in order to use.
  
  DR 2 (Absorption (Healing), +80%) [18], less the cost of DR 2 [10], comes out to [8].
• Leech is being replaced by this because I consider Leech to be unsatisfactory, and so you'll have to forgive me for not using it's price as a guideline when one of my problems with it is its' price.

A range of [3] to [8] above base cost to apply the proposed modifier to an innate attack in order to heal 1 HP of injury for every 2 HP of injury inflicted (depending on which innate attack you add it to). Vs [8] from DR, [15] from Healing and [20] from Regeneration. Ish. As I'm basing it on the DR mechanism but it is more limited than the DR version (as DR (Absorption) can't miss, requires damage not injury and can heal FP in addition to healing HP), it potentially costing less than the DR mechanism doesn't especially bother me.

*grins*

From first principles then:

It costs 1 CP to have 1 CP worth of benefits. 1 CP of benefits is permanent; we're not doing permanent things though. Taking "Extended Duration (Permanent)" to "Extended Duration (Permanent with Dispelling Conditions)" is a -60% limitation. (1 - (1/(1+1.50)) = 0.60) Taking "Extended Duration (Permanent)" to "Extended Duration (x1)" is a -75% limitation. (1 - (1/(1+3.00)) = 0.75)

• Extra HP +1 [2 per +]
• Extra HP +1 (Not "Extended Duration (Permanent)", -60%) [0.8 per +]

Being able to heal doesn't have a price tag. PK appears to eyeball it at x2 to x3 the cost. Lets go with x5 cost to give a sufficient margin for error?

0.8 per, x5 cost, is [4 per].

Assuming you go with one of the innate attacks with a base cost of [5 per 1d], the proposed custom enhancement prices out to [4] over base cost. (Innate Attack (absorption (Heal HP Only)) [9 (5 * 0.6 * (1 + 1.3))], less Innate Attack 0d+2 [3 (5 * 0.6)].)

...

Summary: This method comes out roughly equivalent in pricing to one of the existing methods of getting an equivalent (but more versatile) effect. That there are more expensive ways to get the same effect is something with many examples in published materials ... and I'm not interested in re-writing the entire character generation system to make that behavior go away. :)

If the objection is "this is too cheap compared to the alternatives", I think I've satisfied that objection? If not, what would?

I'd like to come out with a fair value. The official version of Leech isn't a fair value. And, so, thereby ...

[the_matrix_walker]

Sorry, but I don't agree with a good number of the assumptions that fuel your math there. Rather than pick it apart and annoy both of us with the ensuing discussion, I'm just going to say...

Enjoy your house rule and post back here later after you've had it in play and let us know if it feels balanced to ya!