Loaded die to start the game

[msw]

This is just a silly question that got us laughing a bit when we started a game of Munchkin Quest. When reading the rule book, starting from first page, reading each page top to bottom, the order of action during the setup and start phase of the game is as follows (among other actions):

• In the setup section. "A starting hand of three Treasure cards and three DxM cards.
• In the following section. "Each player rolls a die. The highest roll goes first."

So, technically, you can have a Loaded Die on your hand when you roll for who starts. A Reloaded Die would be the same, so focus is on Loaded Die only to simplify my question.

If you want to go first, could you play the Loaded Die to make sure you get the highest roll? Have the game actually started at that point, so you can't really play cards yet? Would there actually be any advantage in controlling start order, if you could?

My thoughts on the last question would be, for example, that maybe you can get a head start in gear and level by going first, therefore offer more help to the next player in turn order that other players do, and in turn get even more cards early on. Or would you rather make sure you don't start, because you can visit cleared rooms and search for treasure early on without being bothered by monsters? Or is it actually worth it at all?

This would, I assume, apply to all Munchkin variants where there are Loaded Die cards if the setup and start phases are written in similar order, not just Quest.

[Andrew Hackard]

The game does not begin until the first player makes his or her first move. Cards may be played to the table as part of setup before the game starts, but they do not have any effects until the game actually begins. Therefore, Loaded Die could not be used to alter the die roll to see who wins.

There's the official, authoritative answer. If you want to create a house rule that, in fact, you CAN use a Loaded Die in that fashion if you're lucky enough to get one, go for it.

[msw]

The answer is one of the possible ones I was expecting, and for the reason I was expecting it also. What made me wonder though was that you can play down cards you are dealt before the game starts, but if this only applies to your character (class, race, items, ...), I'm fine with that. [edit: Or, as you said, that played cards have no effect until the game starts, which I guess you could interpret as the Loaded Die have no effect either, if played.]

Thank you for the answer though. I don't know if I actually had a Loaded Die at the time, or if I just randomly got the idea when rolling, but it was not played, so no house ruling for us on it... yet.

[morleydotes]

Originally Posted by Andrew Hackard

The game does not begin until the first player makes his or her first move. Cards may be played to the table as part of setup before the game starts, but they do not have any effects until the game actually begins. Therefore, Loaded Die could not be used to alter the die roll to see who wins.

There's the official, authoritative answer. If you want to create a house rule that, in fact, you CAN use a Loaded Die in that fashion if you're lucky enough to get one, go for it.

So, characters cannot be built until after it has been decided whom is going first? No cards played until after the first roll has been made? Different.


Pat

[Andrew Hackard]

Originally Posted by morleydotes

So, characters cannot be built until after it has been decided whom is going first? No cards played until after the first roll has been made? Different.

That's not what I said. What I said was that cards don't have any game effects until the game starts, which obviously can't happen until you know who goes first and that player starts his turn. You can play them out, but until the game begins, they're just little cardboard rectangles with funny pictures.

[morleydotes]

Originally Posted by Andrew Hackard

That's not what I said. What I said was that cards don't have any game effects until the game starts, which obviously can't happen until you know who goes first and that player starts his turn. You can play them out, but until the game begins, they're just little cardboard rectangles with funny pictures.

You are correct. I didn't read all of the post because "Use this card after you roll any die for any reason. Turn one die to the side you want. That's your roll. Usable once only."

It states "any die roll". This is why I said "different".

Pat

[Andrew Hackard]

Originally Posted by morleydotes

You are correct. I didn't read all of the post because "Use this card after you roll any die for any reason. Turn one die to the side you want. That's your roll. Usable once only."

It states "any die roll". This is why I said "different".

Unless Erik and SJ decide to overrule me (which has happened, as you know), the official word is that the Loaded Die cannot be used to change the roll to see who goes first. (And, honestly, I don't know why you'd waste a LD on that roll when there are so many other die rolls in Quest that are way more important.)

[Quaff_fu]

Originally Posted by Andrew Hackard

(And, honestly, I don't know why you'd waste a LD on that roll when there are so many other die rolls in Quest that are way more important.)

Andrew stole my thunder. Any way what I was also going to post is, I didn’t see any advantage to starting first. I can think of some for letting new and young players starting first, but there not nice ones.

Pat

[RevBob]

Originally Posted by Andrew Hackard

That's not what I said. What I said was that cards don't have any game effects until the game starts, which obviously can't happen until you know who goes first and that player starts his turn. You can play them out, but until the game begins, they're just little cardboard rectangles with funny pictures.

This may have unintended effects. To use a Munchkin card game example (as my brain is a bit fried and I can't think of an MQ example at the moment), suppose one got Dwarf and two Big Items on the deal. Under "funny rectangle" rules, the player would only be able to open with one of the Big Items, because the Dwarf card isn't in effect yet...right? He'd have to wait until his turn started to play the other one....

[Andrew Hackard]

Originally Posted by RevBob

This may have unintended effects. To use a Munchkin card game example (as my brain is a bit fried and I can't think of an MQ example at the moment), suppose one got Dwarf and two Big Items on the deal. Under "funny rectangle" rules, the player would only be able to open with one of the Big Items, because the Dwarf card isn't in effect yet...right? He'd have to wait until his turn started to play the other one....

That is also not what I said. The game starts when the FIRST PLAYER starts his turn. Before that point, "a legal setup" has no meaning to speak of. After that point, Dwarf and two Big Items is legal. I don't see the problem.