New Reality Seeds

[fchase8]

Originally Posted by ericthered

I think a true control of Europe rather than a domination of Europe would be necessary. If you have that, you can take down Britain, and you can take down Russia. But that means you have to win a massive continental war. You have to have a Hitler or Napoleon win.

That is the history of Centrum, where the Anglo-French Empire conquered Europe and its colonies, then the world. Though, in that case, the Empire first had an American (or 'Terranovan') colonial empire, then conquered Hispania's Asian colonies (and Australia/Terraustralis), and then conquered the European continent.

France and Germany are so central to Europe that any technological or even political advance made in either state would quickly bleed over into the rest of the continent. Britain had the advantage of its technology and politics being more removed, and thus slower to infiltrate, the continent (and the first states to accept them were non-aggressive ones like Netherlands & Scandinavia, plus distant USA).

Originally Posted by Gedrin

Is there a limited nuclear exchange scenario that deals catastrophic damage to USSR, USA, the Germanies and Britain, but not France? Maybe the Berlin Airlift goes awry in some way? The French don't have to initiate the change, just benefit from the new circumstance.

I think that was in the history of 2300 AD RPG - it took the Twilight 2000 WWIII and advanced the timeline, with France emerging the best from the nuclear war and taking the lead right up to 2300.

(obviously this would be too far in the future for Infinite Worlds campaign)

[Gedrin]

I think that was in the history of 2300 AD RPG - it took the Twilight 2000 WWIII and advanced the timeline, with France emerging the best from the nuclear war and taking the lead right up to 2300.

Set the exchange early enough and you don't have enough nukes of sufficient size to do world breaking damage, but you still have enough damage to take the competition out of the picture for a generation or two.

[fchase8]

Originally Posted by Gedrin

Set the exchange early enough and you don't have enough nukes of sufficient size to do world breaking damage, but you still have enough damage to take the competition out of the picture for a generation or two.

Yeah, if it was early enough, 1960s after deGaulle took France out of NATO Central Command - time enough for a generation or two of French dominance.

But that would still be after Anglo-American dominance for a century and a half. The rest of the world might have a new French color, but the old Anglo-Saxon centrality wouldn't be completely gone.

And there would be other states that would rival France. Depending on who got nuked, there's China (which could emerge as the new rival to the West), Australia/New Zealand, Brazil, South Africa, India, Israel. Southern states like Australia, New Zealand, Brazil, and South Africa would get a lot of Western refugees - and know-how. Meanwhile newly independent India & Israel wouldn't just kneel to the new boss, France.

[patchwork]

Narcissus is not so much a worldline as a phenomenon with a fixed location in spacetime. Or so Parachronic Labs earnestly hopes. The initial probe returned readings indicating standard atmosphere, very-near-present sidereal time but no modulated EM signals, indicating any civilization was preradio. Intrigued by the possibility of a projection-capable world with no indigenous technological culture, sent a first-in scout...who found a world in which he was the FBI's Public Enemy Number 1, but recognized and beloved by crowds as a valiant robin hood type who stuck it the crooked banks and stood up to the g-men and revenooers. The followup survey team found no trace of the first-in scout, but instead a world in which they, the survey team, were the progressive metal band Narcissus Project, with two consecutive albums at #1 on Billboard.

Every person sent to the Narcissus coordinates has found a close-parallel world in which they are a famous and beloved celebrity, usually rich and powerful as well. Each person has one and only one Narcissus reality. People who go to Narcissus together for the first time usually but not always arrive in the same reality, but at least once every member of a team has found themself arriving alone in the conveyor to a world in which only they are a public figure. People at Narcissus - all people at their various Narcissi, in fact - can send messages back out but no messages seem to go in. People who did not go together their first time never "share" a Narcissus. Infinity has declined to send captured Centrans or people with diagnosed mental illness to Narcissus, but outtimers arrive in a world closely parallel to the one they grew up on.

Most of Parachronic Labs' theories about what's really going on at Narcissus are disturbing. As it's a single, fixed coordinate set, they do not believe agents are actually arriving in separate and distinct realities - which means that something is (subjectively instantaneously) detaining them, analyzing them and creating a very convincing fantasy world for them while their body is actually doing...what? Where? Persons who stayed an extended period of time returned with appropriate levels of nourishment and trauma to their subjective experience. An experiment to have a parachronic engineer go to Narcissus, build a conveyor, jump to a predetermined and memorized coordinate set, and...see if they actually arrive, and in what condition...has not been greenlit due to paranoia about, oh, building a working conveyor potentially in the web of a predatory parachronozoid (to give one theory)...

Most stories are going to revolve around people "escaping" to Narcissus, with agents sent in via magic or psionics to convince them to return to 'reality'...

[Gedrin]

Originally Posted by fchase8

Yeah, if it was early enough, 1960s after deGaulle took France out of NATO Central Command - time enough for a generation or two of French dominance.

But that would still be after Anglo-American dominance for a century and a half. The rest of the world might have a new French color, but the old Anglo-Saxon centrality wouldn't be completely gone.

And there would be other states that would rival France. Depending on who got nuked, there's China (which could emerge as the new rival to the West), Australia/New Zealand, Brazil, South Africa, India, Israel. Southern states like Australia, New Zealand, Brazil, and South Africa would get a lot of Western refugees - and know-how. Meanwhile newly independent India & Israel wouldn't just kneel to the new boss, France.

I don't think China survives if Russia is so weakened it's flinging nukes around. One bomb for Beijing in the 1960's probably solves the problem. India isn't in a position to capitalize on anything other than regional power, if that. Western satellite states that are non-NATO are a decent refuge, and I think France is the strongest of those by far.

However I don't see a good path for France as France to become a world dominating power for the long haul. Maybe they could seize and retain the Mississippi River Valley somehow? Perhaps a radically different world order could allow France to exercise some sort of "place where standards are set" type authority (think a Civ Cultural Victory). France has lots going for it, but it would be hard pressed to compete with the places that have better geographic structure.

[AOTA]

Originally Posted by patchwork

Narcissus is not so much a worldline as a phenomenon with a fixed location in spacetime. Or so Parachronic Labs earnestly hopes. The initial probe returned readings indicating standard atmosphere, very-near-present sidereal time but no modulated EM signals, indicating any civilization was preradio. Intrigued by the possibility of a projection-capable world with no indigenous technological culture, sent a first-in scout...who found a world in which he was the FBI's Public Enemy Number 1, but recognized and beloved by crowds as a valiant robin hood type who stuck it the crooked banks and stood up to the g-men and revenooers. The followup survey team found no trace of the first-in scout, but instead a world in which they, the survey team, were the progressive metal band Narcissus Project, with two consecutive albums at #1 on Billboard.

Every person sent to the Narcissus coordinates has found a close-parallel world in which they are a famous and beloved celebrity, usually rich and powerful as well. Each person has one and only one Narcissus reality. People who go to Narcissus together for the first time usually but not always arrive in the same reality, but at least once every member of a team has found themself arriving alone in the conveyor to a world in which only they are a public figure. People at Narcissus - all people at their various Narcissi, in fact - can send messages back out but no messages seem to go in. People who did not go together their first time never "share" a Narcissus. Infinity has declined to send captured Centrans or people with diagnosed mental illness to Narcissus, but outtimers arrive in a world closely parallel to the one they grew up on.

Most of Parachronic Labs' theories about what's really going on at Narcissus are disturbing. As it's a single, fixed coordinate set, they do not believe agents are actually arriving in separate and distinct realities - which means that something is (subjectively instantaneously) detaining them, analyzing them and creating a very convincing fantasy world for them while their body is actually doing...what? Where? Persons who stayed an extended period of time returned with appropriate levels of nourishment and trauma to their subjective experience. An experiment to have a parachronic engineer go to Narcissus, build a conveyor, jump to a predetermined and memorized coordinate set, and...see if they actually arrive, and in what condition...has not been greenlit due to paranoia about, oh, building a working conveyor potentially in the web of a predatory parachronozoid (to give one theory)...

Most stories are going to revolve around people "escaping" to Narcissus, with agents sent in via magic or psionics to convince them to return to 'reality'...

Sounds like a fun idea for a player and GM adventure.

[PTTG]

Originally Posted by patchwork

Narcissus is not so much a worldline as a phenomenon with a fixed location in spacetime. Or so Parachronic Labs earnestly hopes. The initial probe returned readings indicating standard atmosphere, very-near-present sidereal time but no modulated EM signals, indicating any civilization was preradio. Intrigued by the possibility of a projection-capable world with no indigenous technological culture, sent a first-in scout...who found a world in which he was the FBI's Public Enemy Number 1, but recognized and beloved by crowds as a valiant robin hood type who stuck it the crooked banks and stood up to the g-men and revenooers. The followup survey team found no trace of the first-in scout, but instead a world in which they, the survey team, were the progressive metal band Narcissus Project, with two consecutive albums at #1 on Billboard.

Every person sent to the Narcissus coordinates has found a close-parallel world in which they are a famous and beloved celebrity, usually rich and powerful as well. Each person has one and only one Narcissus reality. People who go to Narcissus together for the first time usually but not always arrive in the same reality, but at least once every member of a team has found themself arriving alone in the conveyor to a world in which only they are a public figure. People at Narcissus - all people at their various Narcissi, in fact - can send messages back out but no messages seem to go in. People who did not go together their first time never "share" a Narcissus. Infinity has declined to send captured Centrans or people with diagnosed mental illness to Narcissus, but outtimers arrive in a world closely parallel to the one they grew up on.

Most of Parachronic Labs' theories about what's really going on at Narcissus are disturbing. As it's a single, fixed coordinate set, they do not believe agents are actually arriving in separate and distinct realities - which means that something is (subjectively instantaneously) detaining them, analyzing them and creating a very convincing fantasy world for them while their body is actually doing...what? Where? Persons who stayed an extended period of time returned with appropriate levels of nourishment and trauma to their subjective experience. An experiment to have a parachronic engineer go to Narcissus, build a conveyor, jump to a predetermined and memorized coordinate set, and...see if they actually arrive, and in what condition...has not been greenlit due to paranoia about, oh, building a working conveyor potentially in the web of a predatory parachronozoid (to give one theory)...

Most stories are going to revolve around people "escaping" to Narcissus, with agents sent in via magic or psionics to convince them to return to 'reality'...

Of course, if you go there with the intention of earning fame and fortune by discovering the nature of the worldline itself, well, you'll certainly find an explanation. Maybe not the explanation....

[Astromancer]

Try this idea...

The Ottoman state in our world's 16th century (before 1520 in fact) was aware of Western technological superiority at sea. However, they did little about it. Try a timeline were the Sultan decides to create a means of examining and learning useful information from Christendom.

The Ottomans, at first disbelieving they could learn anything useful from the West go slowly. But they soon realize that the Europeans are undergoing a unique cultural acceleration. The Turks realize that if they don't keep up, they'll be swamped. so they thank Allah for waking them from the vanity of ignoring a powerful rival, and go to work learning from Christendom in order to compete and conquer it.

The local in this world Caliphate -2 is 1805. The Ottoman state is as advanced as any in Europe. The recent conquest of the Ukraine and the settlements in the Southern Continent (Australia) show Europe that the Ottoman's are as deadly as ever. Since the conquest of Vienna in 1683, the Ottomans haven't struck West, but their alliance with Napoleon, a recent convert to Islam, deeply terrifies all Europe.

The Ottomans in this world are as aggressive as in our world, but no more nasty or intolerant than the Ottomans were at the peak of their power. Ottoman society isn't industrialized like Britain, but they understand the vital need to industrialize better then any other European state. Meanwhile they are looking at the new world and trying to figure out how to get a slice of the Americas. They hope their new Naval bases in the Indian Ocean will allow them a chance to catch-up with European Sea Power.

Any fun?

[ericthered]

So basically the ottomans pull off a "Peter the Great". Interesting idea. And really messes with the balance of power. The big loser I see in all this is Russia. Yes, the hungarians struggle too, but the ottomans will maintain control of the black sea. This might mean that the polish-Lithuanian commonwealth stays a viable state -- the rest of Europe will even want to prop it up a little.

I don't think you need to raise the spectre of napolean to make such a timeline tick. A cold war over colonies between England and the turks is plenty fun. Control of Egypt (or at least the Suez) gives them an even better advantage, and makes cape colony more important.

This inspires an alternate without peter the great. Russia remains weak and no more part of Europe than the Turks. Eventually they get established as somebodies puppet ... probably Sweden or Prussia. Or maybe even Poland (though that would be unusual).

[Astromancer]

Another idea to try...

Carter Hall and Ted Knight are both wounded in 1942 and sent to convalesce in the same Hospital and end up sharing a room. The two men begin to talk shop about their inventions, Nith Metal and the Gravity Rod. They soon come up with some basic ideas that change their world.

By 1943 giant Flying Discs carry Allied troops and supplies through the stratosphere at transonic speeds. Cosmic power stations replace coal fired power plants and electric prices plunge.

The local year is 1948, the economic boom is wondrous. Thanks to Wonder Woman's Purple Ray FDR is alive and well and about to leave office. His Second Bill of Rights has largely been written into the constitution. American Moon Bases are building railroads in the Lunar rock to change the moon from a frontier into a prosperous new home for humanity. Alan Scott has lead a misson to Mars and made contact with the friendly Green Martians and brought back Jonn Jonzz as their ambassador.

However, all is far from well. The White Martians (except for M'gann Morzz) fear the Green Martians and seek to destroy their new allies. The White Martians soon discover that many people on the Earth hate the new Golden Age. Stalin is bitter that the new inventions of the American Mystery Men and Women seem to have rendered his revolution obsolete. Throughout the European colonies nationalist fear that the new Western prosperity might swamp their cultures. The America idealism about making sure all people share in the new prosperity seems to threaten the total erasure of all the world's nonwestern cultures. The remaining Nazis and Fascists feel they are the true supermen, and cling to their brutal dream of making life into Grand Opera.

Basically a Superheros/Conspiracy/Space Opera mash-up. Any fun?