[Supers] How to: Flying Brick Dive-Bomb?

[mlangsdorf]

Since it sounds like the extremes of super-speed boosted slams are potentially causing problems. In that case, you might want to switch the DFRPG slam rules, which have two advantages:
1) it's easier to calculate the slam damage
2) it scales down the damage boost for extreme speed: the flying brick goes from 61d (average of ~215 pts) to 3d+31 (average of ~40 points); the speedster goes from 108d (average of ~375 pts) to 1d+14 (average of ~18 pts).

Like I said in my original post, I think the DFRPG rules don't scale as well at the extremes as the Basic set rules. If you're looking for a more traditional super heroes comic feel, it's probably a good rule to use.

[Phantasm]

I don't have the DFRPG set, sadly. PM me the details for how slam is calculated there? (Or post it here if it won't cause problems....)


For reference, here is the file I'm making my notes in for one fluctuating team of villains (based off DC's various teams of Titans).

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by Phantasm

I don't have the DFRPG set, sadly. PM me the details for how slam is calculated there? (Or post it here if it won't cause problems....)

I wish that would be posted somewhere else like a Pyramid.
Also I dont see ANY Flash as an I class super.

[Nereidalbel]

Personally, I just use an ST-Based Crushing Attack with Accessibility: Only When Slamming. Gets around overly-complicated limitations on DR and IT:DR, and still ruins the other guy's day. You can even apply critical failures meaning something by saying your body hits the ground before the Crushing Attack does.

[Phantasm]

Originally Posted by Refplace

Also I dont see ANY Flash as an I class super.

Well, given that my current build allows him to land 3 to 6 2d cutting attacks (I gave him some swords) per round, he's not doing too much against armored folks (bricks, battlesuits, etc.) unless he decides to slam. I'm just calculating a lot more slam damage than my "max 250 DR, don't munchkin by stacking DR values; max 35d attack dice" rulings permit.

[mlangsdorf]

Originally Posted by Phantasm

I don't have the DFRPG set, sadly. PM me the details for how slam is calculated there? (Or post it here if it won't cause problems....)

Without giving away too much secret sauce, it's basic thrusting damage and a per die bonus based on your speed on the SSR table.

That should give you enough inspiration to derive something similar on your own.

[Culture20]

Originally Posted by Phantasm

Anyway, would Brick's DR be modified in any way in the dive-bomb? It's a genre convention that the dive-bomber comes away from that move unharmed, but the slam rules say that both parties take damage. I don't think her DR 150 (which is normal DR for a Class 50 - 2-handed lift of 50 tons - brick) is gonna be enough to handle the 61d+61 of the slam. (I've also given her IT:DR /20, so that'll help somewhat.) I just don't want her immune to super-powered hits that aren't this trick, though.

I might be remembering incorrectly, but I think slammers only take damage based on the DR of the target; slam a Japanese paper wall at full speed and you destroy the wall, but should take 0 damage, while slamming concrete at full speed might do nothing to a high DR super. Quicksilver slamming an adamantium wall... now he matches his sister’s color scheme.

[Phantasm]

Originally Posted by Culture20

I might be remembering incorrectly, but I think slammers only take damage based on the DR of the target; slam a Japanese paper wall at full speed and you destroy the wall, but should take 0 damage, while slamming concrete at full speed might do nothing to a high DR super. Quicksilver slamming an adamantium wall... now he matches his sister’s color scheme.

That's what I thought, but then I read this under the "Slam" heading:

Originally Posted by Basic Set p.371

If you hit, you and your foe each inflict dice of crushing damage on the other ...

and so far not seeing anything about taking DR into the equation. Looks like I'm entering house rule territory.

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by Culture20

I might be remembering incorrectly, but I think slammers only take damage based on the DR of the target; slam a Japanese paper wall at full speed and you destroy the wall, but should take 0 damage, while slamming concrete at full speed might do nothing to a high DR super. Quicksilver slamming an adamantium wall... now he matches his sister’s color scheme.

I don't think DR, though there are some versions based on the HP of the target (i.e. you take damage from slamming something equal to the damage it would have inflicted slamming you at that speed). This is logical enough but breaks symmetry with falling. What probably should happen is you both take damage based on the lower of your two masses/hit points. Also for consistency with the falling rules sufficiently low DR should presumably half damage (as for landing on a soft surface).

Additionally there's an issue that doesn't get mentioned but is worth realizing is there, and that's if your slam damage based on a move rate produced by your muscles considerably exceeds your swing ST damage, your character isn't *realistic*. He couldn't move that fast. At that point the "problem" isn't so much with the slam rules but with whatever technobabble is allowing that move rate not specifying what it does to impacts.

[Culture20]

Originally Posted by malloyd

I don't think DR, though there are some versions based on the HP of the target (i.e. you take damage from slamming something equal to the damage it would have inflicted slamming you at that speed).

Ah, I was remembering Basic379: Hurting Yourself, which doesn’t include collisions.

This is logical enough but breaks symmetry with falling. What probably should happen is you both take damage based on the lower of your two masses/hit points. Also for consistency with the falling rules sufficiently low DR should presumably half damage (as for landing on a soft surface).

That works better for slamming a wall of memory foam, but still not perfect; it has more mass than a human but the damage to the human shouldn’t be human v human.

Additionally there's an issue that doesn't get mentioned but is worth realizing is there, and that's if your slam damage based on a move rate produced by your muscles considerably exceeds your swing ST damage, your character isn't *realistic*. He couldn't move that fast. At that point the "problem" isn't so much with the slam rules but with whatever technobabble is allowing that move rate not specifying what it does to impacts.

I suppose for DC/Marvel type speedsters, I’d consider making two collision calculations: one at super speed for the target’s damage, and one at the speedster’s sans-Altered-Time-Rate speed for the damage to the speedster. But that makes them waaay OP.