Combatives martial arts styles

[Icelander]

In my current modern world campaign, military hardware and martial arts are one of the mainstays. This renders it somewhat impractical for me to switch over to 4e for that campaign, as the books High Tech and Martial Arts for 4e have not yet been published, while the previous edition had quite functional and enjoyable rules for guns and unarmed fighting.

As a consequence, I find myself still using the 3e Martial Art styles regularly during play. The addition of manoeuvres and secondary skills add verisimilitude and combine to make PCs specialising in the various styles distinct from each other. However, while the 3e Martial Art book covers a large variety of styles, it is all but impossible to shoehorn every form of martial art into a single sourcebook.

I know that people here overwhelmingly use 4e rules, but I suspect that there are many who still remember the rules of the previous edition and anyone who bets against GURPS players being intimately familiar with real world phenomena as it relates to gaming is looking to lose money. Therefore, I ask you, my fellow Internet geeks, if anyone has ideas on how best to represent the following styles using 3e Martial Arts rules:

Anti Terror Kampf

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

Combat SAMBO

Krav Maga

MCMAP

S.C.A.R.S.

Systema

I am aware that many of them could be represented by the Military Hand-to-Hand style, with perhaps a little Fairbairn system thrown in, but I am looking for a little more detail than that. 4e suggestions are welcome as well, since converting should be a breeze and I will probably do it as soon as 4e Martial Arts comes out anyway.

[Peter V. Dell'Orto]

FWIW, these made it into the MA4e draft:

Originally Posted by Icelander

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

Combat SAMBO

Krav Maga

MCMAP

but these...

Originally Posted by Icelander

Anti Terror Kampf

S.C.A.R.S.

Systema

...these did not.

Just so you know where to focus your most strenuous efforts. Hope that helps a bit. :D

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Toadkiller_Dog

Hope that helps a bit. :D

Thanks.

Any chance of making a guess about stats for those styles that did NOT make it into the 4e draft?

[Peter V. Dell'Orto]

Originally Posted by Icelander

Thanks.

Any chance of making a guess about stats for those styles that did NOT make it into the 4e draft?

In 3e terms? Heh. I'm a 4e martial arts expert, not 3e. ;)

I haven't done all that much research on them - I had problems finding a ready supply of unbiased material and people with personal experience, plus I already had a good supply of example military HTH styles. MCMAP was an easy sell, for example - ready access to printed materials, no less than 3 belt holders in the style - two of whom could literally demonstrate moves on me in person.

So it is hard for me to hazard much of a conversion for them to either 3e or 4e because I just didn't do the homework on them. For System and Anti Terror Kampf it was hard for me to find much that didn't read like ad copy, too. Pile that on top of "No personal access to a stylist" and I couldn't justify the research time to find out the real bones of the system and what it would look like in 4e.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Toadkiller_Dog

In 3e terms? Heh. I'm a 4e martial arts expert, not 3e. ;)

I haven't done all that much research on them - I had problems finding a ready supply of unbiased material and people with personal experience, plus I already had a good supply of example military HTH styles. MCMAP was an easy sell, for example - ready access to printed materials, no less than 3 belt holders in the style - two of whom could literally demonstrate moves on me in person.

So it is hard for me to hazard much of a conversion for them to either 3e or 4e because I just didn't do the homework on them. For System and Anti Terror Kampf it was hard for me to find much that didn't read like ad copy, too. Pile that on top of "No personal access to a stylist" and I couldn't justify the research time to find out the real bones of the system and what it would look like in 4e.

I'm having the same trouble with ad copy descriptions.

There should be some German military types here who can give us an idea of how ATK really works.

S.C.A.R.S. is pretty dead in the water unless one of our regular posters happens to be a Navy SEAL.

Systema is really something that GMs have to decide for themselves how effective it is. It would probably resemble SAMBO somewhat, have a wide selection of improvised weapons and be include many "excessive force" techniques and few soft ones.

I'm going to have to come up with something on both SAMBO and Systema as one of my players wants his character to develop a more dangerous style of unarmed/improvised weapon combat and is looking to enter some kind of Spetznaz training to do it.

[Icelander]

As no one seems to be biting, I'll have to risk trying doing one myself and see whether I can get any constructive criticism. I don't really have any specific knowledge of martial arts so the following is basically a WAG based on anecdotal evidence and seeing things on a phosphor screen.

Brazilian Jui-Jitsu Cost: 10/-

Primary skills: Judo, Wrestling
Secondary skills: Brawling
Optional skills: Intimidation, Judo Sport, Tournament Law, Wrestling Sport
Manoeuvres: Arm lock [2 points], Breakfall, Choke Hold [2 points], Ground Fighting [2 points]

This represents a fairly hard, full-contact version of the sport. A softer, more sportsmanlike version might switch the Sport versions of Judo and Wrestling to Primary skills and drop Brawling.

Commentary from people who actually practice this sport is welcome. Luther, this means you.

[Pragmatic]

Okay, but can the system give a realistic representation of sumito? :D

-- Steve Perry fan Pragmatic

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Pragmatic

Okay, but can the system give a realistic representation of sumito? :D

-- Steve Perry fan Pragmatic

I haven't read the novels in question, but if you can provide some details of the style, sure it can.

I seem to recall elements of the style being taken from Pentjak Silat, so that would be a good starting point.

[Pragmatic]

Originally Posted by Icelander

I haven't read the novels in question, but if you can provide some details of the style, sure it can.

I seem to recall elements of the style being taken from Pentjak Silat, so that would be a good starting point.

Been a while since I've read the books, but the latest is out, so I'll have to order it from the library. :)

It's a style based on movement and throws, with a little bit hard style in it. (Speaking as a complete novice; less than a novice, really.) There are some sort of psycho-mechanical hypnosis they're able to use, as well, though that's a bit cinematic.

Here's the wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumito

(And WOW, but a lot of places rip off from Wiki...)

I mostly like it because it's based on movement and an accomplished practitioner seems to be dancing.

Will the Martial Arts book make maneuvers worthwhile? As I understand it right now (as a GURPS collector, rather than player *sigh*), getting more than a few maneuvers isn't really worthwhile, as you can get a better deal by just improving the stat or the underlying skill. However, I like having the extra description of having a maneuver...

[Icelander]

ATK Cost: 11/-

Primary Skills: Brawling, Judo
Secondary Skills: Karate, Pressure Points
Optional skills: Shortsword, Tonfa
Manoeuvres: Arm Lock, Choke Hold, Disarming [2 points], Elbow Strike, Hit Location (Brawling) [2 points], Knee Strike

That’s my take on it, but I’d welcome some input from those who actually know anything about it.