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Old 06-24-2018, 05:33 PM   #21
GranitePenguin
 
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Default Re: Developing Ogre as a miniatures game

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* More online how-to-play videos and video play sessions posted to YouTube, Facebook, BGG, and other sites. If someone plays Ogre on Twitch, also share that.
I've done some of this with my terrain tutorials for the Steam version already, which obviously applies to the physical game, too. I'm working on more play-throughs of the Nightfall campaign. This is more complicated if trying to film physical content; recording the computer game is "easy" in comparison. At least there's some version of it to see.

Related to this, there's no current Ogre "thing" available in the Youtube gaming to select. If you look at my playlist, you'll notice it's using the 1986 version of the game because that's the closest thing I could find. We need a refresh of link material so the current stuff is referenced.

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* Convention games, with Ogre players going to their local cons and teaching the game to others.

* Players in a region talk to the local stores and figure out which one would be willing to host a monthly Ogre meet-up at the store. Play Ogre once a month at a local store on a Saturday or Sunday afternoon where others can see the game in action.
I'm doing this with my local FLGS (they have a weekly tabletop evening on Tuesdays and Ogre shows up a lot; two weeks ago was Ogre 6e using Minis set 1, and I plan to go again this Tuesday), but one of the things currently lacking is Ogre-themed prize support. I've got a bucket of Munchkin stuff I can hand out (bookmarks, et al), but there's no Ogre equivalent to give people a lasting impression. I've spent my own money on Pocket Ed and dice to give away over the years, but that's not sustainable.

Another aspect of this that's a bit crippling is the fact only the basic Ogre game is currently in production. It's tough showing people things like ODE when you know they can't easily buy it, especially from a store.
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Old 06-24-2018, 10:05 PM   #22
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Default Re: Developing Ogre as a miniatures game

Non-gamers.
1-2 at a time.

Allow me to relate a brief tale to illustrate.

I returned to gaming & Ogre last year, after a 30+ year hiatus. I saw an organized play advertised on SJG, and located the local store hosting it. I was the only one who showed up to play Ogre. I had a great game with the owner, and found in, the far corner, he had his last remaining copy of ODE sitting on the floor. I bought it the next day (heaven!). It had been sitting there for years, & they were delighted someone actually bought it to play, not just resell on Ebay.

After telling my puzzled kids about my gaming childhood, i dug out my old 70's D&D minis. 2 weeks later, my kids & I returned to the same store for Friday minis painting class. There was a pretty good turnout for that, but it was also weekly magical card night. There were 4 tables of card players, furiously playing. They were lined up at the counter all evening to buy specialty cards at $5-$15 a pop, as fast as the cashiers could ring them. The store probably made more on those cards in 1 hour than they did on Ogre stuff for a year. There's nothing wrong with that, but everyone who bought cards walked past the Ogre board still out on the first table, & none paid any attention to it - not their type of game. Same goes for the War Pliers 30C & Star Jedi games.

People who really enjoy fast-moving, easy to learn hex & counter wargames are probably already playing Ogre, cause it seems to be about the only one left.

Gamers who just like playing different board games my enjoy a game or 2 of Ogre, but not develop a particular loyalty to it. They like to play different games.

Conversely, my kids who've hardly played any game not on a screen both like Ogre, I've played games with other family as well. I played numerous games with my daughter's classmates during a field trip last year - won many converts. None of them ever heard of tabletop wargames.

There is a growing nostalgia for "Retro" things from the 70's- 80's - Stranger Things, vinyl records, analog synths, etc. Appears to have a huge contingent of young people 20's & below within it. Ogre is a touch point to those times. That could be useful in making a connection.

One of the things that always struck me as key to Ogre's initial success was minimum risk. Frankly, I took a chance on Ogre in 1977 because it was only $3. I figured if i didn't like it, i wasn't out much. It quickly became my favorite game. It suspect that was the case for many, if not most, early players. The excellent gameplay kept them playing.

My closest FLGS has the best selection of games in the area. There must be 200-300 games (or more) in that store, plus paint, minis, accessories, etc. The games cover many different topics & styles, but they all have one thing in common - $$$! Almost all are $50-$100+. Its an expensive, crowded market with a really narrow distribution channel. I've suspected for some time that a new pocket version of Ogre for $10-15 would be as radically different at the end of one of those shelves as $3 Ogre was at the end of a section of $25+ Avalon Hill games in 1977.

Drew has said here repeatedly that the game sells itself to new players, and that is true. The trick is getting them to try it. How may copies of Zombie Dice sold because they were in the games section of Walmart? How many copies of pocket Ogre would sell if they were on the shelf next to Munchkin & Zombie Dice? For those who take the $10-15 chance on the pocket version & enjoy it, O6E is the next upgrade step. How many of those kids at FYE spending $4 on a nostalgia candy bar would drop $12.99 on a cool retro pocket game? I bet quite a few. How many will spend $50, knowing only what they see on the box cover? Not many.

Established gamers are selective in their interests, but willing to spend money ($30+ for cardboard counter sheets). Its hard to attract their interest to very different types of games, however. I found this true even in my earlier gaming phase - D&D players weren't interested cause it was a wargame, and "serious" wargamers scoffed at the future setting.

Non-gamers have no such biases.

Game stores are great for reaching gamers, but are a very narrow channel. Other than existing Ogre players introducing individual non-gamers to Ogre personally, the only way i can see to get Ogre in more hands is with a lower risk version in wider distribution.

Probably not what anyone wants hear, thats my long-winded $0.02, worth what you paid for it.

I've always believed Ogre deserved a wider base that it has (or had). The question is how to get people to site a a board & play once?
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Old 06-24-2018, 10:30 PM   #23
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Default Re: Developing Ogre as a miniatures game

Of course, the obvious answer to drive new player sales is to get a game of Ogre in a scene on Stranger Things. You won't be able to print enough....
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Old 06-24-2018, 11:43 PM   #24
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Default Re: Developing Ogre as a miniatures game

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Of course, the obvious answer to drive new player sales is to get a game of Ogre in a scene on Stranger Things. You won't be able to print enough....
Hmm, the timing for Shockwave being released is just about right...
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Old 06-25-2018, 01:21 AM   #25
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Default Re: Developing Ogre as a miniatures game

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Another aspect of this that's a bit crippling is the fact only the basic Ogre game is currently in production.
The Battle Box, with lots of plastic and working as a stand-alone game, goes on the water this week and will be in stores later this summer.
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Old 06-25-2018, 03:55 AM   #26
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Default Re: Developing Ogre as a miniatures game

My girlfriend had to return to LA, but perhaps I could get some photos of my roommate playing Ogre? She is rather photogenic, and will probably also rip through my defensive lines to destroy my CP.
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Old 06-25-2018, 05:50 AM   #27
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Default Re: Developing Ogre as a miniatures game

@Drew: for here it's product availability.

With just a few days notice, I got an invite to help out at a local wargames show here in UK. I immediately chose to go with Ogre, setting up two side-by-side tournament boards so I could run simple 'MkIII Attack' scenarios. And it also helped us to take some Ogre products, including our own S&TO countersheets, to promote and sell. Locating that other Ogre product was quite hard actually, and resorting to buying it retail at my own expense. In the short time available I was able to secure 3 copies of Ogre 6thEd from two different sources, and likewise, half a dozen Ogre Pocket Editions. And all but one of those were bought on the day.

Reception was roughly 50:50 from players who remembered Ogre from old, (and most of whom were genuinely surprised to see it back in the 6th Edition format) - and then those who had never seen the game at all.

So, I did my best for a one-day small event, but if you want to get more players switched on and enthusiastic about Ogre, the product has to be there for them to buy it.

I had a lot of interest shown in the Ogre Miniatures too - I took some of my own Heavy Tank sample packs I've been sent with various W23 orders - and they were very well received. Lots could see they have great potential, nice crisp mouldings, an easy plastic to work with, good surfaces for a variety of painting styles. But I got asked the same two questions:
1: where can I buy this stuff in the UK?
2: will there be a steady supply of it?

I'm not on the firm and said so, and directed them instead to visit Warehouse 23 to see all that's available there. And that is ostensibly as far as I can push it for you folks. I can and will keep at it, but sorting out supply to meet demand - that's for you guys to tackle.
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Old 06-25-2018, 07:37 AM   #28
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Default Re: Developing Ogre as a miniatures game

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1: where can I buy this stuff in the UK?
2: will there be a steady supply of it?
We have no control at all over what distributors and retailers choose to carry. All we can do, and continue to do, is promote titles and send distributors and retailers product info.

The best way to see a game in your local stores remains: Ask and ask often. Preorder. Ask your friends who want the product to preorder.

If retailers and distributors see a sustained demand for a game line, they will stock it.
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Old 06-25-2018, 08:58 AM   #29
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Default Re: Developing Ogre as a miniatures game

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So, please continue this discussion, but consider my question alongside your response. How do we get new players into Ogre?

D.
Drew it seems what we are lacking is the social approach. How often do you see Ogre articles in the hobby's publications? Usually only with a new KS and nothing beyond that. And granted it's hard to get something in them as they are always looking for new ans shiny. How often do you see something like ASL mentioned? Social media affects our industry greatly. Good games fail for lack of attention. MTG only continues because the tourneys really. Otherwise people would be moving on to the next big thing.
When I mention Ogre to anyone not in our hobby their head kinda tilts to the left like " What's that?" But unlike other games you don't find Ogre in Target or Walmart. With the introduction of Munchkin CCG perhaps additional card promoting either the 6e or the Steam game which for newbies might actually have a greater attraction than for the old grognards like me.
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Old 06-25-2018, 09:05 AM   #30
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Default Re: Developing Ogre as a miniatures game

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We have no control at all over what distributors and retailers choose to carry. All we can do, and continue to do, is promote titles and send distributors and retailers product info.

The best way to see a game in your local stores remains: Ask and ask often. Preorder. Ask your friends who want the product to preorder.

If retailers and distributors see a sustained demand for a game line, they will stock it.
This might not be the place to discuss this Phil but I couldn't find a PM. Tiffin Games and TAK has demonstrated the ability to produce a quality counter sheet. Perhaps a licensing agreement for him strictly for certain geographic areas for actually making the 6e over there thus avoiding the freight issue and the stocking issue for SJG?
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