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Old 03-19-2010, 02:14 AM   #21
DSumner
 
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Default Re: Israeli Golems

Since you guys are hard at work on 3D ogres, any chance you could squeeze these in at some point? And possibly give us a hint on the drones these things carry?
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Old 03-19-2010, 06:51 PM   #22
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Default Re: Israeli Golems

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Originally Posted by DSumner View Post
Thanks, but that's not it. The pic I'm talking about was a front view, and partially showed the side. You could clearly see the MB and and all three SB.
Is this it?

http://panpacalliance.tripod.com/5591cc80.jpg

Sorry, firewall here is preventing me from posting an actual image.
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Old 03-20-2010, 06:58 AM   #23
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Default Re: Israeli Golems

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Originally Posted by Armydillo978 View Post
Is this it?

http://panpacalliance.tripod.com/5591cc80.jpg

Sorry, firewall here is preventing me from posting an actual image.
Nope, but thanks for the assist.
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Old 05-27-2018, 12:45 AM   #24
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Default Re: Israeli Golems

I realize this is a very old thread, but for reasons the question of if Israel would use Ogres at all came up in my mind and it seems the source of the Golem is the GURPS OGRE book alone. Has this ever come up in any other canon publication?

Personally I dont think the IDF would use Ogres at all and the treatment of them in the GURPS book is not good quality. Anyone else have any thoughts on this?
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Old 05-27-2018, 02:40 AM   #25
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Default Re: Israeli Golems

First let me say that projecting current military theories into the OGRE-verse is sketchy at best.

That said, Isreal's reliance on armored units and tendency to be an early adopter of military tech would make me think they'd be among the first.
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Old 05-27-2018, 03:13 AM   #26
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Default Re: Israeli Golems

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First let me say that projecting current military theories into the OGRE-verse is sketchy at best.

That said, Isreal's reliance on armored units and tendency to be an early adopter of military tech would make me think they'd be among the first.
OK well first off were debating a game that came out of deep late Cold War 1 thinking. Something that based on what Steve Jackson has written regarding his design ideas was definitely projecting what was current into the future as to what could be.

But that said my objection isn't technological its cultural. Every culture has its own ways of war after all. Essentially something that both Jewish and Arabic Muslim culture share is that the idea of a golem/djinn is a cautionary tale that the either the mindless automaton or the self aware non human entity when tasked to defend always goes beyond its mission parameters in unexpected and destructive ways.

Given that even before its formal development as an army of a state, the IDF has made use of a rabbinic advisory council on laws of war and related matters, such a unit would require a complete change of operational doctrine to the point of a culture shift.

That said I do agree on the point about armor and miltech but suspect that would manifest in game as variants of existing in game units or new non autonomous armor units.
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Old 05-27-2018, 06:00 AM   #27
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Default Re: Israeli Golems

And that's precisely why I didn't address that in the other thread. I am not comfortable discussing what may or may not be a belief among living religions, and I feel such a discussion has no place on the company forums of a toy and game manufacturer. I strongly recommend doing your own research on the subjects. But be warned: even among those who accept as true the stories of the Golem and the "fire people," there is no consensus to be found.

I will say that, whatever you decide is right for you, suggesting that established, published work be set aside because it disagrees with your opinions is Very Bad Form. When SJ says GURPS Ogre is "not quite canon," that's his prerogative as the owner of the company and the inventor of the game. And, of course, you can do whatever you want at your own table. But until we have something with SJ's complete approval, we work with what we have, and GURPS Ogre is that baseline.
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Old 05-27-2018, 06:34 AM   #28
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Default Re: Israeli Golems

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Unfortunately the entire PanzerBlitz family of games (PanzerBlitz, PanzerLeader, Arab-Israeli Wars) all went the way of the dinosaur when Avalon Hill was swallowed by the Evil Empire. They were some of the best counter & hex games about armored combat (1939-1973) ever produced. The terrain rules and LOS rules from those games translate well to OGRE too (BONUS!).

You might see them on Ebay from time to time, but a classic AH bookcase game in fine or better condition will oftentimes fetch $100+.

I am a grognard of 30+ years in the the wargaming hobby, so I have every wargame AH printed (and most of their sports and education games too) along with more toy soldiers than it is safe for a middle aged man to own. :-)
Try http://www.imaginative-strategist.la...com/index.html for your maps.
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Old 05-27-2018, 06:40 AM   #29
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Default Re: Israeli Golems

And Roland and Dom....I'm expressing you both a bottle of cognac. You guys are way too serious inho...lol. Happy Holiday.
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Old 05-27-2018, 06:43 AM   #30
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And Roland and Dom....I'm expressing you both a bottle of cognac. You guys are way too serious inho...lol. Happy Holiday.
I'll accept in the spirit it's offered, but this is very much not a happy holiday for me. That has nothing to do, by the way, with my previous post.
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