[Powers] Limiting Modular Abilities

[nerdvana]

How would you price the inability to rearrange points that you have used in the last eight hours?

My idea is to use RPK's Either/Or Limitations in this way...

either Accessibility, cannot rearrange points that have been used, -80% or Minimum Duration, 8 hours, -5%; total modifier -4%

Does that seem right to anyone else?

[Bruno]

I'm not sure how that isn't just Minimum Duration, 8 Hours period.

[nerdvana]

Originally Posted by Bruno

I'm not sure how that isn't just Minimum Duration, 8 Hours period.

I'm trying to mirror something from that other game...

Originally Posted by Hypertext SRD

If a wizard has cast spells recently, the drain on her resources reduces her capacity to prepare new spells. When she prepares spells for the coming day, all the spells she has cast within the last 8 hours count against her daily limit.

Source of Quote

... That sounds like more than just a Minimum Duration, 8 hours (which is -5%) since as I would rule it that would mean that you cannot re-memorize for 8 hours, no exception... as the above is written there is an exception "Haven't used the assigned points". If someone asked me to limit their Modular Abilities so that they cannot rearrange points they have used ever, that would (IMO) be a -80% limitation on the advantage (because it severely cripples the advantage), wouldn't it?

[Walrus]

Originally Posted by nerdvana

I'm trying to mirror something from that other game...

Then this isn't limitation on MA themselves but on abilities in it.

[nerdvana]

Originally Posted by Walrus

Then this isn't limitation on MA themselves but on abilities in it.

How do you see that? This is a limitation on the MA's innate ability to be rearranged at will...

[munin]

Some people believe that if you use an allocated ability which has a recharge time (like Luck), then you can't re-allocate those points (or, alternatively, use the re-allocated ability) until the recharge time has ended. This does eliminate the munchky tactic of re-allocating Luck, etc., but I don't believe there is any explicit statement of this rule in RAW*.

Thus, you could get the effect you want by requiring that all allocated abilities have Takes Recharge, 8 hours, -30%. If they aren't used, you can re-allocate them freely, but if they are used you have to wait 8 hours before re-allocating them.

Minimum Duration, 8 hours, -5% is much less of a limitation because it would allow you to use the allocated ability freely during that time, while Takes Recharge only allows you to use it once.


* the closest example is in Divine Powers, where the use of a use-limited alternative ability doesn't knock out the entire set of abilities for the recharge time, only that ability.

[nerdvana]

Originally Posted by munin

Some people believe that if you use an allocated ability which has a recharge time (like Luck), then you can't re-allocate those points (or, alternatively, use the re-allocated ability) until the recharge time has ended. This does eliminate the munchky tactic of re-allocating Luck, etc., but I don't believe there is any explicit statement of this rule in RAW*.

Thus, you could get the effect you want by requiring that all allocated abilities have Takes Recharge, 8 hours, -30%. If they aren't used, you can re-allocate them freely, but if they are used you have to wait 8 hours before re-allocating them.

Minimum Duration, 8 hours, -5% is much less of a limitation because it would allow you to use the allocated ability freely during that time, while Takes Recharge only allows you to use it once.


* the closest example is in Divine Powers, where the use of a use-limited alternative ability doesn't knock out the entire set of abilities for the recharge time, only that ability.

OH! I see how that would work. How would that takes recharge interact with single use powers?

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by munin

Some people believe that if you use an allocated ability which has a recharge time (like Luck), then you can't re-allocate those points (or, alternatively, use the re-allocated ability) until the recharge time has ended. This does eliminate the munchky tactic of re-allocating Luck, etc., but I don't believe there is any explicit statement of this rule in RAW*.

I fall on this side of the debate, for reference. :)

Originally Posted by munin

* the closest example is in Divine Powers, where the use of a use-limited alternative ability doesn't knock out the entire set of abilities for the recharge time, only that ability.

Can you provide a page reference? Everything that I've found in Divine Favor so far doesn't discuss the question at all.

[Snaps]

This sort of sounds like Takes Recharge, -30% (One hour is the maximum level of the limitation allowed). But it sort of depends on how you interpurt the Op's wording.

the inability to rearrange points that you have used in the last eight hours?

So if you have an Innate Attack loaded and then use it, you can't rearrange the points for 8 hours. If two hours later you use the innate attack again, the time starts over.

This actually seems like a pretty big limitation to me, since it keeps resetting itself. Normally if you just put Takes Recharge, One Hour on it you can use the attack as much as you'd like, then switch it an hour later.

When in doubt, just use an Accessability Limitation.

Accessability, Unable to rearrange points for 8 hours after use of purchased abilities, -50%, sounds about right to me.

The limitation is at least as restricting as taking Limited Use, 3 per day, -20%; plus Takes Recharge, 1 hour, -30%, but probably doesn't qualify for any more of a cost break.

[munin]

Originally Posted by Bruno

...Can you provide a page reference? Everything that I've found in Divine Favor so far doesn't discuss the question at all.

It's actually the lack of discussion I'm referring to. Some abilities are based on advantages with "recharge" times (e.g., Confidence is based on Luck, p. 8) or have recharge times added (Flesh Wounds uses Maximum Duration, p. 9), yet they only seem to limit how often that specific learned prayer can be invoked -- the recharge time doesn't knock out the entire set of alternative abilities.

The rule for alternative abilities that seems relevant here is on p. P11: "Anything that disables one ability disables the whole collection...". Does a recharge time count as disabling for this purpose? The lack of discussion in Divine Favor seems to indicate that it doesn't. I don't know if that extends to modular abilities as well.

With modular abilities I think I prefer to treat each allocated advantage separately (honestly, I've been avoiding the issue). If you use an allocated Luck, you can immediately swap it out for another trait and use it, but if you then swap Luck back in it's still on the same clock as before (though you could allocate a higher level of Luck to reduce the recharge time). I think that's consistent with how Divine Powers treats alternative abilities and it makes modular ability builds less finicky.