Pheromones

[jason taylor]

Originally Posted by Modric

Hi all. I'm looking to develop a race for a DF game where the women have a pheromones that they use to seduce/ control men.

You mean humans?

[Flyndaran]

Humans don't have pheromones. Our vomeronasal organ is completely vestigial and doesn't even connect to the nervous system for most of us.

[jason taylor]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

Humans don't have pheromones. Our vomeronasal organ is completely vestigial and doesn't even connect to the nervous system for most of us.

Some would disaggree.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_sex_pheromones

[Flyndaran]

Vestigial production of pheromones would still need an actual organ to detect them. We don't have one.
Scents have an effect, but those aren't pheromones. Pre-diabetes, I certainly could tell a lot about people by scent. But I would only call them pheromones as hyperbole.
Your link just says people have tried to find them but no one has done so yet or possibly ever will.

[artichoke]

Originally Posted by Varyon

Pheromones are already worked out in Bio-Tech, primarily on page 48. They are mostly built on Affliction and aren't precisely targeted (anyone within range of Sex Pheromones and that are attracted to your gender, for example, gain Lecherousness - and not just toward the producer of the pheromones), which is realistic. Some are outright Advantages with scent-based Limitations (Dominance Pheromones give the user Charisma). I strongly suggest checking out those builds and modifying them for your own use.

I'm not sure about that (bolded). Although a creature affected by pheromones may becomes more pliable in general, it seems typical for that creature to actively seek the specific source of the pheromones. I just watched a documentary about Atlas silk months. When a female emits the pheromones a male will fly from miles away to find her.

Recent research also found that the "beer googles" effect extends to homosexual attraction involving heterosexual men. With enough alcohol (I think it was 20 drinks or something quite large), the researchers found that males became basically bisexual — finding other males attractive (which they normally did not). How much they would be able to perform under that level of alcohol is a different question. But, this example would favor an even broader affect of pheromones than the one you outlined. It would give lecherousness that would have a same-sex aspect to it as well, although probably not one that is as strong. Of course, given how much alcohol is involved in my example it could also have an intoxication effect so it would be quite powerful.

[artichoke]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

Vestigial production of pheromones would still need an actual organ to detect them. We don't have one.
Scents have an effect, but those aren't pheromones. Pre-diabetes, I certainly could tell a lot about people by scent. But I would only call them pheromones as hyperbole.
Your link just says people have tried to find them but no one has done so yet or possibly ever will.

There are various studies that suggest humans can differentiate between body odors based on genetic compatibility and sexual orientation. One study involving the latter found evidence that hetero males find homo males' odor unappealing, for instance. That research was interesting because it suggested that odor attraction differentiation goes beyond just the dichotomy of male and female into the four main orientations.

However, there is also conflicting results in some of this research. Psychology Today ran an article about a tee shirt study that seemed to show evidence that female humans prefer males who are different from them (for maximum genetic variety) while a later replication of the study found the opposite. In that one, the females seemed to prefer the scents that were familiar. Both studies, though, did find that they only liked "light" body scent, nothing rank or overpowering.

As far as the vomeronasal organ being vestigial and unconnected... Is it a fact that it's impossible to smell pheromones without that? Or, can our sense of smell manage, at least weakly? I believe I read that females have a better sense of smell than males have, and that it intensifies on a monthly cycle. Is that accidental or related to this pheromones issue? I have also heard that body hair (such as armpit and pubic) is designed to increase the dispersion of pheromone-type scents.

[AlexanderHowl]

Humans actually have a much better sense of smell than people assume, it is just that most contemporary humans do not train their sense of smell. Recent research suggests that humans are potentially comparable to rats and dogs with their sense of smell, we just do not usually train it because we have quite good hearing and vision (https://m.phys.org/news/2017-05-myth...r-animals.html). I am sure that our Ice Age hunter-gatherer ancestors used their sense of smell quite often and trained it to be good enough to detect potential food sources and potential dangers because they needed every advantage to survive.

[artichoke]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

Humans actually have a much better sense of smell than people assume, it is just that most contemporary humans do not train their sense of smell. Recent research suggests that humans are potentially comparable to rats and dogs with their sense of smell, we just do not usually train it because we have quite good hearing and vision (https://m.phys.org/news/2017-05-myth...r-animals.html). I am sure that our Ice Age hunter-gatherer ancestors used their sense of smell quite often and trained it to be good enough to detect potential food sources and potential dangers because they needed every advantage to survive.

Dogs have a lot more surface area for smelling, at least larger dogs like hounds. I think it's basically impossible for humans to come close to a dog, unless it's some kind of heavily bred tiny/small one.

That said, some researchers have said humans in most developed societies don't use smell to differentiate between potential mates much because of things like deodorant and perfume/cologne being so commonplace. Most laundry detergent has odors as well. Also, air pollution is an issue in some places. People put in "air freshners" which impede their sense of smell, like Febreeze, too.

[Flyndaran]

Pheromones are not just scents.

[artichoke]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

Pheromones are not just scents.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/scien...nes-100363955/

Originally Posted by Smithsonian

He and his colleagues had women watch a sad movie scene, collected their tears and placed samples of the unidentified fluid under men’s noses. The tears did not elicit empathy in a standard lab test, but they did reduce the men’s sexual arousal and testosterone levels. Apparently the tears sent a message that romance was off the table.

In one 2005 study, gay men given anonymous samples of sweat preferred the scent of gay men, and heterosexual men fancied the scent of women.

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=116833&page=1

Originally Posted by Psychology Today

In a study published in 2009, Sébastien Doucet and colleagues exposed 3-day-old babies to secretion from areolar glands surrounding the nipples of unrelated, unfamiliar lactating women. The secretion stimulates suckling by any baby, not just a mother’s own infant, and the babies’ responses seemingly developed independently of any experience with breasts or milk. If it eventually proves possible to isolate, identify and synthesize the active factor, this will be the first demonstration of a pheromone in a mammal without a VNO.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/b...06/sexy-scents