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Old 05-28-2018, 06:26 PM   #1
Steve Jackson
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Default HEAL spell?

Comments?


Heal (T) (IQ 14)
For each 3 points of ST that the wizard puts into this spell, he/she can cure one hit of damage on himself or another. Heal will also restore lost fatigue from spellcasting, etc., but rarely is it practical to use it this way.
Heal will cure HT already lost to disease and poison, but it will not cure the disease nor make a poison go away.
It is possible to place healing magic into an artifact, but such things are rare and costly, and work no better than a mage with the Heal spell and a strength battery or a corps of apprentices.
Healing scrolls, on the other hand, are common. As with other scrolls, the magic comes from the scroll and the strength comes from the caster.

Comments: There is no HEAL spell in the original game because of concerns that it would make an adventuring party too self-sufficient. I no longer think that is a big problem.
I can imagine making it IQ 13, but no easier; this should be a spell that most wizards donít have.
Perhaps a Master Physicker who knows this spell would restore lost hits at only 2 ST each? I like synergies between Master Physicker and other kinds of healing.
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Old 05-28-2018, 07:08 PM   #2
Jim Kane
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Default Re: HEAL spell?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Jackson View Post
Comments?

Heal (T) (IQ 14)
For each 3 points of ST that the wizard puts into this spell, he/she can cure one hit of damage on himself or another... Perhaps a Master Physicker who knows this spell would restore lost hits at only 2 ST each? I like synergies between Master Physicker and other kinds of healing.
A good magical analogue to the Master Physicker talent [with good supporting rational included; thank you ;-)]
  • Agree with IQ 14 - consistant with Master Physicker Talent.
  • Agree with ability to combine with MP Talent - one is Physical Realm, one is Magical Realm.
  • DISAGREE with ST cost/ratio - thinking a 4:1 might better keep this spell from being overly ab/used. At a cost of 4 for 1, would mean that a Wizard of ST-12 could on average put 8 ST into the spell to generate 2 points of healing, leaving the Wizard at ST-4 fatigue; YET only keeps a heavily injured figure away from the threshold of death and back in action, but not easily escaping the DX penalty for an injured figure at ST-3.

    This might be too brutal for some folks tastes, but I personally feel injuries, and the labyrinth in general, are VERY dangerous and deadly things; and should not be so easy to "cheat" with rules which could easily undermine the inherent deadliness of injuries and dangerous environments. A higher spell cost would ensure that remains so.

That's my 2 cents on the above rules draft. Nice job!

Addendum Also, this spell relives the party of the time requirement that the Physicker Talents requires to use, and therefore negates the GM's ability to advance the Labyrinth Monsters closer to the party as they heal quietly to enjoy the benefit of healing - and that reduces the overall tension in the game - so more reasons why I feel the cost to the players should be higher at 4 to 1, compensating for the loss of time constriction, and balances the loss with the tension-filled dilemma of "Do we waste our Wizard to heal Monty, the Unconscious' or,... do we stop and try to heal him here with our Physicker and watch for trolls, or do we drag him behind as a lodestone and liability, or leave him for the slimes?" Having an on-demand supply of Wiz-o-Fix just kills all that drama and play-value.

JK

Last edited by Jim Kane; 05-29-2018 at 02:34 PM. Reason: Addendum
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Old 05-28-2018, 07:33 PM   #3
Shostak
 
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Default Re: HEAL spell?

I'd consider having the spell give the caster the abilities of Physicker or Master Physicker talent, instead, so that healing is not too rapid.
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Old 05-28-2018, 08:08 PM   #4
Jim Kane
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Default Re: HEAL spell?

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Originally Posted by Shostak View Post
I'd consider having the spell give the caster the abilities of Physicker or Master Physicker talent, instead, so that healing is not too rapid.
While an exceedingly logical idea SHOSTAK, do you think that method would feel very "magical" if we were to negate the "within the twinkling of an eye" instant-effect? How specifically would this be different than a Wiz with the Physicker Talent? And if no instantaneous benefit/result, where would the "magical effect" be with that method; other than the Wiz would not need a Physicker's Kit to perform said healing?

Can you clarify with more details, please.

Thanks.

JK
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Old 05-28-2018, 08:40 PM   #5
Kirk
 
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Default Re: HEAL spell?

All good comments so far, we definitely need to be careful and make injury real and serious. IQ 14, and probably 4:1 as Jim has suggested might make sense.

And remember, Physicker can only be used once on a set of injuries to avoid unrealistic healing by multiple people or in succession if camped somewhere. There probably should be some similar consideration given to the magical side of things. No new damage, no new magical healing.

Again, I don't have my rulebook so correct me if wrong, but isn't fatigue gained back at 1 point per quarter hour and damage at 1 point per 2 days of actual regulated rest?

So let's see...a ST-13 IQ-14 wizard with this spell (say with DX - 10, being about a 37 point wiz), say at the SJ rate of 3:1 ratio could heal a ST-13 hero from adjST-1 to 5 strength, rest 3 hours to regain his strength of 13, then repeat to take hero to adjST - 9, rest 3 hours, then hero to 13 and full strength, rest 3 hours to regain exhaustive strength.

So if my late night math is good, 9 hours to restore two man party to full health if one is taken down to unconsciousness. If the hero was on his own but safe, 24 *days* to fully heal.

So with spell, one "working" unmolested day to fully regain ST, without, almost a month.

Not judging, is this what we want in TFT? I'm not sure... :0
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Old 05-28-2018, 08:56 PM   #6
Kirk
 
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Default Re: HEAL spell?

Oh, and not to get off topic, but we have found that there are, somewhat, critical IQ levels for heroes and wizards that by default people designing characters will often rest on.

For instance, IQ 11 is popular because illusion, whereas 10 is rarely taken except in passing to 11.. ;)

IQ 14 is popular, if I remember, cuz lightning, besting out 13, etc. etc.

If memory serves, for example, because it just usually doesn't make a lot of sense to be one shy of that very special spell, people rarely take or stay at IQs as wizards, say, of 8, 10, 13 and favor 9, 11, 12, 14, at least in our group.

The same can hold true for heroes.

So my point is, placement of a spell or talent can game the IQs that people will squat on, often then shortchanging some of the other talents or spells because they lie in the twilight zone, so to speak, and just are not attractive enough to take in place of one in the zone nearby.
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Old 05-28-2018, 09:02 PM   #7
Jim Kane
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Default Re: HEAL spell?

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Originally Posted by Kirk View Post
...And remember, Physicker can only be used once on a set of injuries to avoid unrealistic healing by multiple people or in succession if camped somewhere. There probably should be some similar consideration given to the magical side of things. No new damage, no new magical healing...
AGREED Can combine PHYS with WIZ, but not multiple or repeat applications to same injured figure; or whatever the current language stating the prohibition reads to negate such abuses. Also, if the PHYS can cure 2 AND the WIZ can cure 2, that's still only a total of 4, it takes time (Phys), AND in most cases will waste the combat potency of the wizard to get the additional 2 hits of healing on a figure if they work together - and that sounds reasonable to me, if we are taking these hits due to injury with all seriousness.

JK

Last edited by Jim Kane; 05-28-2018 at 09:10 PM. Reason: Typo
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Old 05-28-2018, 09:15 PM   #8
larsdangly
 
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Default Re: HEAL spell?

A nicely balanced solution to the perceived problem that hurt characters stay hurt too long.
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Old 05-28-2018, 09:31 PM   #9
Jim Kane
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Default Re: HEAL spell?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirk View Post
So my point is, placement of a spell or talent can game the IQs that people will squat on, often then shortchanging some of the other talents or spells because they lie in the twilight zone, so to speak, and just are not attractive enough to take in place of one in the zone nearby.
Yes, efficiency break-points are all over TFT.

However, it is even more of reason why I would suggest keeping it in-line with the Master Physicker talent, as an IQ-14 Spell; and disturbing the established structure as little as possible.

And if that doesn't flush with everyone, as our friend JLV is always so dutiful to remind everyone who offers "TFT tweaks" just before they go totally gonzo: if for no other reason "K.I.S.S." when in doubt.

JK
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Old 05-28-2018, 10:25 PM   #10
Jim Kane
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Join Date: Mar 2018
Default Re: HEAL spell?

Quote:
Originally Posted by larsdangly View Post
A nicely balanced solution to the perceived problem that hurt characters stay hurt too long.
LARS, your post is as puzzling to me as a fortune-cookie LOL! Are you saying that SJ's draft on the Healing Spell is good to go "as is", or are you agreeing with KIRK's mathematical thesis ?

Please clarify further at the usual standard of your normally brilliant and impactful elucidations and pontifications on all matters TFT; so we are all clear on just what it is you are agreeing to, and why.

Besides, I enjoy your posts so much, and that one, left me feeling a bit ripped-off LOL!

Thanks.

JK

Last edited by Jim Kane; 05-29-2018 at 05:24 PM. Reason: Typo
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