09-21-2018, 02:32 PM | #2 |
Join Date: May 2015
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Re: Shield-Rush is pointless?
I would say no, and no to both questions.
But I think it would be possible to read the existing rules as saying that if you have not taken your action yet, and fall due to a shield rush, you can switch to Change Positions and stand up at the end of the same Action Phase. The reaction to injury rule makes it clear that you can't do that if you fall due to damage. I would extend that to ALL ways you could fall down (shield rush, tripping over a body, trip spell, getting tackled into HTH even if a friend then kills the person you were in HTH with before turn end) so that the sequence for standing up is always the same, and so that it's never inconsequential. But it's not crystal clear as far as I see in the current rules. |
09-21-2018, 04:11 PM | #3 |
Join Date: Sep 2007
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Re: Shield-Rush is pointless?
Note that the description of the option for Stand Up says that you stand up at the end of the combat phase. Recall that everyone moves (the movement phase), then everyone attacks (the combat phase). Also recall that you pick your turn option at the start of your turn in the movement phase.
So, if you were planning to attack a faster shield-rusher, you picked "Charge Attack" (or some other option that allows attacks). You both move so as to wind up adjacent (or perhaps were already engaged). The shield rusher hits and knocks you down in his turn in the combat phase. Now it's your turn in the combat phase. You can't attack because you're prone. You can't stand up (yet) because you didn't pick the Stand Up option back in the movement phase. The combat phase ends; the turn ends. Next turn, the shield rusher moves. Maybe he moves away (you're no longer engaging him), or maybe he gloats and takes an attack option to capitalize on your prone state. Let's go with the latter. You take the Stand Up option. Shield rusher can move, but he wants to stay next to you. You can't crawl away, because you're engaged. So nobody actually moves (other than a shift). Combat phase begins. Shield rusher goes. He attacks you with the bonus for you being prone. You go; Stand Up forbids attacks, so it's mostly irrelevant in this phase. The combat phase ends. As the rule says, now you actually change state from prone to standing; the turn ends. In short, a auccessful shield rush costs you an attack or move, and gives your opponent(s) an opportunity to attack you while you're prone. That's not a good thing. Possible misunderstandings might be thinking that you get to choose an option immediately after the shield rush is successful. Not so; options are chosen earlier. Another error would be thinking that you become "standing" at the end of your movement phase. Also not so, as Stand Up explicitly says "end of the combat phase". There's also not an extra "action at the end of that same turn". There's no extra action granted, and you only stand up if you took the option Stand Up at your previous opportunity. It says "Rise...at the end of the combat phase" -- not the end of your movement phase. Nor do you choose an option at the beginning of your turn in the combat phase; you pick options at the start of your turn in the movement phase (see Melee p5), and that option controls your possible behavior in both movement and combat phases. So, in short, you'll be down for at least one full combat phase even if you choose Stand Up at the earliest opportunity. |
09-21-2018, 05:56 PM | #4 | |
Join Date: May 2015
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Re: Shield-Rush is pointless?
Options are declared during movement, but figures can change options to respond to changing circumstances unless noted otherwise.
From page 6 of the current Melee draft: Quote:
As before, it wants clarification for all types of falling, including: * shield rush falling * tripping on bodies * intentional falling * the Trip spell ... |
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09-21-2018, 10:10 PM | #5 | ||||
Join Date: May 2015
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Re: Shield-Rush is pointless?
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Wizard page 8 (and not Melee) has a section on lying, kneeling, prone, which also says: Quote:
Last edited by Skarg; 09-21-2018 at 10:27 PM. |
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09-22-2018, 05:56 AM | #6 |
Join Date: Sep 2007
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Re: Shield-Rush is pointless?
Nice. I'd looked only in Melee. (And also noticed the gap with the rule about taking enough damage to get knocked down. I didn't find anything in Melee that explicitly says you can't attack while you're prone, but that does seem to be implied by the lack of a penalty, if nothing else.)
Also an interesting question just from the question of evolution of TFT into GURPS. A GURPS turn is entirely different from a TFT turn. |
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