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Old 11-09-2019, 07:24 PM   #11
Fred Brackin
 
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Default Re: TL 9 Police Tactics

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Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
PCA is cheaper than replacing highly trained SWAT. It also gives them superhuman strength, good movement, and good jumping distance.
They don't need those things.

Anyone who wants to get into heavy combat with the cops does not get a reply in kind. The SWAT team may not even be who responds to a call of "powered armor" but whoever does probably uses a guded missile in response.
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Old 11-09-2019, 07:28 PM   #12
naloth
 
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Default Re: TL 9 Police Tactics

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Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
They don't need those things.

Anyone who wants to get into heavy combat with the cops does not get a reply in kind. The SWAT team may not even be who responds to a call of "powered armor" but whoever does probably uses a guded missile in response.
Yes. PCA is good for cinema but it's basically putting mecha in civilian hands. Exosuits are better suited for construction than law enforcement.
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Old 11-09-2019, 09:57 PM   #13
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Default Re: TL 9 Police Tactics

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Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
Or you can just use a robot/drone, which is what the real world is evolving towards.
Which simply creates a different set of tactics and counter-tactics. If the drones are remote-piloted, there will be places where they are hard to deploy, and technology can be used to make signal connection hard, too. If AI is good enough for them to operate unsupervised, a bunch of other things change too.

Drones won't so much replace police as be used by police, and they won't eliminate direct presence in all cases.
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Old 11-09-2019, 11:27 PM   #14
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Default Re: TL 9 Police Tactics

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Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
In addition, nonlethal weaponry greatly improves. The average patrol car with probably add a CAW with Sleep rounds and a Portable MAD for crowd control. SWAT vans will probably add an ETC Anti-Material Rifle and an ETC Payload Rifle with a wide variety of rounds to allow them to fulfill a wide variety of missions (an ETC Anti-Material Rifle can deliver a 15 mm Biochemical round filled with Sleep Gas from 3,000 yards away).
That sort of range very little utility for police, and such a round has a very small radius of effect. A 40mm grenade launcher is sufficient for almost all situations, and where it isn't a 25mm grenade launcher should be. As for using a CAW - why do the police need full-auto shotguns over semi, especially for chemical rounds where it's likely that the most common effect of firing large groups of shells into an area is to cause over-doses.

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Primary sidearms would include Electrolaser Carbines with 25 mm UGLs with Tangler rounds while secondary sidearms would include Electrolaser Pistols.
A carbine with a grenade launcher added is not a sidearm. An elecrolaser pistol or tangler pistol depending on situation and policy as a less-than-lethal option, and a decent handgun (what that means depends on expected threats) as normal carriage with a shotgun and/or full-sized tangler in the boot for when the situation requires something bigger would seem sufficient. SWAT teams could carry just about anything, depending on the environment they operate in, policy, and what the government makes available/allows to police departments. Also shocksticks or zapgloves for their larger HT penalty - probably the former because they're more versatile.

Remember that the police are almost always dealing with members of the general public, most of them very ordinary, and even the professional criminals will generally avoid using heavy firepower on police unless they're part of a gang that's effectively at war with the cops. They don't need lots of firepower, and a Reflex uniform trousers and jacket (with a collar that can be turned up) is probably sufficient for a beat cop. Slap a Light Infantry Helmet and clamshell over the uniform in the event of a building assault, etc.

As for powered armour, even the lightest TL9 suit is 165 pounds, counting helmet. Thus a SWAT team member plus armour and gear is going to be around 350 pounds, and that means it'll go through a lot of building floors once things get dynamic unless the wearer keeps to a slow walk. That severely limits their utility.
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Last edited by Rupert; 11-10-2019 at 12:47 AM.
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Old 11-10-2019, 12:41 AM   #15
Anthony
 
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Default Re: TL 9 Police Tactics

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Originally Posted by Johnny1A.2 View Post
Drones won't so much replace police as be used by police, and they won't eliminate direct presence in all cases.
Agreed, but they will tend to replace police in situations where power armor might be useful, which is what I was talking about.
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Old 11-10-2019, 12:51 AM   #16
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Default Re: TL 9 Police Tactics

So, I've studied crime (a little) from a statistics point of view and have talked with a police chief (who represents a whole state of police chiefs to the state legislature).

One thing he doesn't anticipate changing is that police really want to deter crime more than react to it. And one of the best ways to do this is to be seen as a presence in the community. So... Do you want to go friendly or unfriendly with your world?

A nice friendly way is to have minimally armed/armored police with some way to arm up if the situation arises. This can be SWAT teams on rapid response vehicles, or rapid-deployment armor/weapons in the car. It could even be some kind of mobile armory or drone delivery service for weapons and armor.

A less friendly way is to have remote-controlled police robots and make them fairly ubiquitous. If there are police drones within a mile of any given location and 20 within 5 miles, and all can be equipped and respond within 2 minutes, that's pretty effective. Add to that a camera on the top of each one being monitored by the remote officers, and you have a pretty effective, pretty creepy system.

Another option is surveillance. London is already headed down this path, but if everybody knows that they are being watched by the police at all times... That deters crime. Then police may stop and question anybody seen behaving in an unusual manner on cameras. Currently, systems are patchwork, but if cameras get cheaper, they could be everywhere. And a quick deployment of officers could be effective. Then, you could also have police supervisors giving orders with remarkable efficiency like they were looking at a battle map.

A creepier form of surveillance involves citizen reporting and secret police. Everybody is expected to report suspicious behavior. Some people are tapped to behave suspiciously to test the system, so NOT reporting your friends or strangers on the street could get you in trouble too. Now, almost everybody reports. Almost everybody conforms. And... Dystopia..
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Old 11-10-2019, 01:48 AM   #17
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Default Re: TL 9 Police Tactics

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One thing he doesn't anticipate changing is that police really want to deter crime more than react to it. And one of the best ways to do this is to be seen as a presence in the community. So... Do you want to go friendly or unfriendly with your world?
This is a very good point. The point of police isn't to go in with as heavy a weapon as you can (that's when you call the military), the point of the police is to deter and detect crime. It's the same reason the police don't routinely carry firearms (possibly a taser at most), at least in the UK - they want to police by consent rather than at gunpoint (and it's the police themselves who don't want firearms, not the government stopping them).

At TL9 I think the main improvement will be in forensic and surveillance technology. The former could lead to prosecutions in cases where nowadays there isn't enough evidence. The latter is more controversial - there's a backlash against surveillance creep now, and with TL9 that's likely to get worse.

Fundamentally I think this depends on what sort of world you want to run your game in. A dystopia will have inhuman drones with electrolasers patrolling the streets, omnipresent surveillance, etc. Or could equally plausibly say that the bobby on the beat isn't going to change much, though the forensics teams will benefit from better evidence gathering. And if it does come to a shootout, armed response or special forces will get all sorts of new gadgets.
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Old 11-10-2019, 07:22 AM   #18
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Default Re: TL 9 Police Tactics

When you look at things with LC in mind, you realize that the only change in tactics that Police/SWAT need are incorporating TL9 advances into their repetoire, rather than responding to civilians/criminals having it. It also helps that 2019 world is already light TL9

The entire Police force will not adopt Tacsuit as their uniform. It is likely they'll have their uniform made of some armored weave that still appears approachable and civilian, with chest section easily swappable for a Hardshell or Advanced Assault Armor (P3-57:12).

Firearms will be equipped with reliable ID system to prevent the officer from being disarmed and shot with his own gun, which will come equipped with advanced hollow-points that will be that much more deadly, since real life hollow-points actually have serious chance to not expand. TL9 version ALWAYS expands. HUD Link will be mandatory.

Speaking of HUD link, protective glasses like transparent tactical ones from High Tech will become a standard, both to protect the eyes and to project HUD upon it. Mainstay information will be navigational compass, brief data on the call via radio-codes (ie, 11-23 Code 2: Address), location of his partner via compass and, when sidearm drawn, current ammo count and crosshair.

HUD will connect to the radio, digital, with small computer within. It'll run silhouette software to run facial recognition upon the person before the officer, using criminal database. It'll be activated via authentificating button press, to avoid unauthorized access in case of theft. It'll be a general replacement for in-cruiser terminal, which will be repurposed for other uses or simply serve as backup.

All actions will be recorded via these HUD glasses and uploaded to remote server. The practice of blocking body cam will die out, as courts will rightfully claim that if the camera was blocked, officer's eyesight was blocked. It'd be easy to prove that it wasn't.

A lot of good things can be done with software, such as translator packages for tourist police, and speed/range reader for traffic police.

Drones will replace Police Helicopters in scouting role, their software should be sophisticated enough to follow a vehicle or patrol pattern, or pilot slots will be given to drone operators for less pay. Direct integration into wider PoliceNET that can feed data to officers on the ground.

Helicopters will retain their transport role for SWAT teams and such.

SWAT teams will choose tacsuit as their standard uniform, modified to be used with Hardshell or Advanced Assault Armor without DX penalty. Standard Police HUD will receive TacNet software as well as various other aids like door weakpoint databases, etc.

Their main armament will be an Assault Carbine, similar to late TL8 cousin. SWAT teams have never placed body armor penetration over safety of others, thus large die and huge piercing modifier is of little use to them. TL9 variants of AP ammo will be issued when appropriate, while Storm Carbine will be reserved for less conscious units, where it'll replace 7.62x51 assault rifles.

Shotguns will remain the same, although ammo will be improved. Quad-stack magazine shotguns may appear here or there, but they won't be common, as they give no extra benefit to SWAT tactics.

Rocket Pitons with auto-ascender will replace standard grappling hooks, increasing speed and reliability of tactical climbing.

Infiltration tactics, medical training, will become more sophisticated and technological.

In general Police will probably be able to simply shut down most of their opponent's equipment via internet-of-things, digital safeties, self-driving cars, etc. Everyone will quietly phase away the analogue equipment except paranoid and extremely poor, for varied reasons.
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Old 11-10-2019, 07:31 AM   #19
AlexanderHowl
 
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Default Re: TL 9 Police Tactics

How exactly is 2019 early TL9? I would think it is more late TL8 with emergent TL9.
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Old 11-10-2019, 07:49 AM   #20
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Default Re: TL 9 Police Tactics

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Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
How exactly is 2019 early TL9? I would think it is more late TL8 with emergent TL9.
Most of signature tech of first half of TL9 already exists for sale or as prototypes.

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https://gurps.fandom.com/wiki/TL9_(The_Microtech_Age)

Signature technologies: Artificial intelligence; real-time virtuality.
Transportation: Robot cars; space elevators; manned interplanetary space flight
Weapons and Armor: Electrolasers; heavy laser weapons; battlesuits; combat robots; designer viruses
Power: Micro fuel cells; deuterium-hydrogen fusion; high-temperature superconductors
Biotechnology/Medicine: Human genetic engineering; tissue engineering; artificial wombs; cybernetic implants
The power section is the hardest to confirm, as belief in it's existence is considered not a sci-fi belief, but a conspiracy theory. It goes like - Big Oil purchases, patents and conceals advanced Power tech to milk the Oil industry and the power it gives to the last drop. When it does, they'll rapidly go public with fusion tech to retain their monopoly. If you believe this, we're TL9. If you don't, we're Almost TL9
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