[Basic] Disadvantage of the Week: Neurological Disorder

johndallman · 08-01-2019, 07:12 AM

Neurological Disorder [-15, -35 or -55] is a mundane physical disadvantage. You have physical, rather than psychological, problems with your brain and nervous system that impose limits on your skills and actions. This disadvantage appeared at GURPS 4e, as a generalisation of several 3e disadvantages.

The main effects come in three levels, corresponding to the three point costs. You are at -2, -4 or -6 to any task that would be boosted by High Manual Dexterity, and such tasks take, 2, 4 or 6 times as long. You also have -2, -4 or -6 to social skills when your condition is apparent to people you’re interacting with, because you’re hard to understand, and your struggle to control yourself is somewhat horrifying. At the first level, there are no limitations on your attributes, but at the second, you cannot have DX or Basic Move above your species average, and at the third, they cannot exceed 80% of your species average. This would limit a human with the worst version to DX 8, and an effective skill of 4 with a DX/Easy skill that they had four points in, but was reduced by this disadvantage.

The first level is normally obvious to anyone who’s seen you for more than a few seconds. The second and third levels make it increasingly difficult to function in society. My maternal grandfather had Parkinson’s Disease, which would be modelled with this disadvantage, and I can testify to its frustrating and alienating qualities, even to loved ones. If you wanted, this disadvantage provides a reason for buying down DX and Move further, reduced Appearance due to facial contortions, and involuntary vocalisation, which is Noisy. If you want really bad symptoms, buy their effects as Odious Personal Habits.

Bio-Tech allows Neurological Disorder to be genefixed at TL8, has a neural enhancement drug that can cause it if things go wrong, and offers high-tech mitigators and cures. Encounters: The Harrowed Hearts Club makes it a temporary side-effect of really bad moonshine, Horror of anxiety and Madness Dossier of defective loa. Infinite Worlds Reich-5 “mules” can suffer this disadvantage, as can Martial Arts characters who take severe head wounds.

Power-Ups 6 has quirk-level versions, but critical failures with a Psi-Tech mind-swapping machine are more serious, and one reason why Neurological Disorder is an option on the Psis “Experiment” template. Supers makes it an option for telekenetics and mesmerists, and Thaumatology for urban shamans. Ultra-Tech has several ways to get your nerves scrambled, and a few to fix them.

I’ve only seen this used once in a game. In my Infinite Cabal campaign, there’s an NPC mathematician who’s working on acquiring a [2] advantage for each of the 36 decans. This is having noticeable effects on her mind and body, making a mild case of Neurological Disorder plausible, and it pays for seven more of the advantages!

Has Neurological Disorder been significant in your games?

Pursuivant · 08-01-2019, 10:59 AM

In GURPS 3E Neurological Disorder was called "Tourette's Syndrome."

That disad originally appeared in the obscure GURPS 3E supplement "Callahan's Crosstime Saloon" along with other vaguely dubious traits like alcohol-related disadvantages. It was specifically created to model a character who appears in the Callahan's series who had severe Tourette's.

Due to its huge impact on skills, it's not a good disad for PCs in most campaigns. Even in more cerebral problem-solving campaigns only a seriously committed roleplayer is going to choose it. Instead, from the player point of view, it's a great way to reduce the point cost of otherwise competent Allies or Dependents. From the GM's point of view, it's a great way to create memorable NPCs, or as a way to curse PCs.

Arguably, ND should be a special case of Ham-Fisted or vice-versa, since the effects are similar. What makes ND more crippling, however, is the increased time required to perform fine manual tasks. Also potentially related to ND: Confused, Decreased Time Rate, Klutz, Lame, OPH, and Stuttering.

Realistically, any level of ND is also going to be accompanied by problems like reduced Move and DX, as well as some or all of the additional disads listed above.

A big aspect of ND that is missed in the write-up is balance problems. While ND focuses on the hassles that people with Parkinson's, Tourette's etc. face with fine motor tasks and involuntary tics, the big medical issue is fall injuries.

GURPS doesn't have a disad to simulate poor balance, but it can easily be modeled by applying a -80% limitation ("Only for balance rolls") to levels of reduced DX. But, if -4 per level seems excessively generous, then perhaps a house-ruled "Poor Balance" trait worth -1 or -2 points per level would be fairer.

~~namada~~ · 08-01-2019, 03:45 PM

As someone that's been diagnosed with 2 ND's in the last 5 years (started having symptoms that I could recognize back in 2006, probably had some before), and will likely be diagnosed with another one or two in the coming years, this disadvantage needs a complete rewrite IMO. While I'm not a physician, I've come to learn a lot about ND's over the past decade, and rereading this Disadvantage today, because of this thread, had me realize how badly off from reality it truly is. I don't think anyone's ever used it in any of my games before though. So there's that too, it rarely comes up in play. If written more realistically though, it might see more use. At the very least, it needs a mitigator (at TL7+) limitation - pills reduce the symptoms for nearly all ND's these days.

Rupert · 08-01-2019, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by namada

At the very least, it needs a mitigator (at TL7+) limitation - pills reduce the symptoms for nearly all ND's these days.

Just because the disad doesn't mention Mitigators doesn't mean that they shouldn't apply. The problem with Mitigator in Characters is that it's all or nothing, but in real life mitigators as often as not just reduce the severity of something.

vicky_molokh · 08-02-2019, 02:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rupert

Just because the disad doesn't mention Mitigators doesn't mean that they shouldn't apply. The problem with Mitigator in Characters is that it's all or nothing, but in real life mitigators as often as not just reduce the severity of something.

Well, then just apply the mitigator percentage to the difference in point costs between different levels of the Disadvantage, just like you do with different levels of Innate Attacks when you apply a limitation only to some levels thereof. I don't think it's a huge leap, though it does only come up since Powers, IIRC.

Rupert · 08-02-2019, 02:59 AM

That works with this, and other levelled disadvantages. It doesn't work if you have the 1st level of Chronic Pain (for example) and want to reflect the pain killers you use only partially working on it (reducing the penalty to -1 from -2). I suppose you could assume that the mitigator works on half the disad and thus gives only half the cost reduction in this case, as the cost is linear. But how does one handle glasses that only partially correct Bad Sight?

vicky_molokh · 08-02-2019, 03:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rupert

That works with this, and other levelled disadvantages. It doesn't work if you have the 1st level of Chronic Pain (for example) and want to reflect the pain killers you use only partially working on it (reducing the penalty to -1 from -2). I suppose you could assume that the mitigator works on half the disad and thus gives only half the cost reduction in this case, as the cost is linear. But how does one handle glasses that only partially correct Bad Sight?

Apply the limitation percentage to the difference between the two traits. It doesn't even need to be the same type of trait (theoretically; some people would argue that there's an extra benefit in being able to switch types in addition to reducing severity).

~~namada~~ · 08-02-2019, 10:56 PM

Many NDs come with psychological and mental impacts as well. As written, it seems to just focus on the tremor/tic effects. Thinking on it more, I suppose you might be better off building them as Meta-Traits, at least if you're looking to build something like MS, Parkinson's Disease, or Tourettes. This actually works as-is for Essential Tremor (I've got that), though my medications completely eliminate it for me, so I guess if I were to build myself as a character, I'd just have to apply mitigator to it - as long as I've got the pills, its not a disadvantage for me. ;)

vicky_molokh · 08-04-2019, 03:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by namada

Many NDs come with psychological and mental impacts as well. As written, it seems to just focus on the tremor/tic effects. Thinking on it more, I suppose you might be better off building them as Meta-Traits, at least if you're looking to build something like MS, Parkinson's Disease, or Tourettes. This actually works as-is for Essential Tremor (I've got that), though my medications completely eliminate it for me, so I guess if I were to build myself as a character, I'd just have to apply mitigator to it - as long as I've got the pills, its not a disadvantage for me. ;)

In general GURPS is used best by building your own meta-trait, because traits lean more towards being building blocks. Effects-based and all. Of course, a few here and there do happen to be bundles, but still, there seems to be a consistent desire to move towards 'if you need other effects, buy them separately'.

Pursuivant · 08-04-2019, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by namada

Many NDs come with psychological and mental impacts as well. As written, it seems to just focus on the tremor/tic effects. Thinking on it more, I suppose you might be better off building them as Meta-Traits, at least if you're looking to build something like MS, Parkinson's Disease, or Tourettes.

Many severe diseases and mental illnesses are best handled as meta-traits. For example, advanced bone cancer requires Terminally Ill, Unfit, reduced HT, ST, and DX, Susceptibility (Disease), Chronic Pain, etc.

Something that's missing from the Basic Set and Powers is "Mitigated with Maintenance," where some sort of regular activity reduces or eliminates a problem. For example, someone with advanced kidney disease might have their symptoms mitigated by dialysis, or someone with cancer might keep it under control with chemotherapy.

You can also apply the same limitation to mental disads. For example, Star Trek Vulcans are prone to all manner of nasty mental disads which are kept in check by regular periods of meditation.

08-01-2019, 07:12 AM	#1
johndallman Night Watchman Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Cambridge, UK	[Basic] Disadvantage of the Week: Neurological Disorder Neurological Disorder [-15, -35 or -55] is a mundane physical disadvantage. You have physical, rather than psychological, problems with your brain and nervous system that impose limits on your skills and actions. This disadvantage appeared at GURPS 4e, as a generalisation of several 3e disadvantages. The main effects come in three levels, corresponding to the three point costs. You are at -2, -4 or -6 to any task that would be boosted by High Manual Dexterity, and such tasks take, 2, 4 or 6 times as long. You also have -2, -4 or -6 to social skills when your condition is apparent to people you’re interacting with, because you’re hard to understand, and your struggle to control yourself is somewhat horrifying. At the first level, there are no limitations on your attributes, but at the second, you cannot have DX or Basic Move above your species average, and at the third, they cannot exceed 80% of your species average. This would limit a human with the worst version to DX 8, and an effective skill of 4 with a DX/Easy skill that they had four points in, but was reduced by this disadvantage. The first level is normally obvious to anyone who’s seen you for more than a few seconds. The second and third levels make it increasingly difficult to function in society. My maternal grandfather had Parkinson’s Disease, which would be modelled with this disadvantage, and I can testify to its frustrating and alienating qualities, even to loved ones. If you wanted, this disadvantage provides a reason for buying down DX and Move further, reduced Appearance due to facial contortions, and involuntary vocalisation, which is Noisy. If you want really bad symptoms, buy their effects as Odious Personal Habits. *Bio-Tech* allows Neurological Disorder to be genefixed at TL8, has a neural enhancement drug that can cause it if things go wrong, and offers high-tech mitigators and cures. *Encounters: The Harrowed Hearts Club* makes it a temporary side-effect of really bad moonshine, *Horror* of anxiety and *Madness Dossier* of defective loa. *Infinite Worlds* Reich-5 “mules” can suffer this disadvantage, as can *Martial Arts* characters who take severe head wounds. *Power-Ups 6* has quirk-level versions, but critical failures with a *Psi-Tech* mind-swapping machine are more serious, and one reason why Neurological Disorder is an option on the *Psis* “Experiment” template. *Supers* makes it an option for telekenetics and mesmerists, and *Thaumatology* for urban shamans. *Ultra-Tech* has several ways to get your nerves scrambled, and a few to fix them. I’ve only seen this used once in a game. In my Infinite Cabal campaign, there’s an NPC mathematician who’s working on acquiring a [2] advantage for each of the 36 decans. This is having noticeable effects on her mind and body, making a mild case of Neurological Disorder plausible, and it pays for seven more of the advantages! Has Neurological Disorder been significant in your games? __________________ The Path of Cunning. Indexes: DFRPG Characters, Advantage of the Week, Disadvantage of the Week, Skill of the Week, Techniques.

08-01-2019, 10:59 AM	#2
Pursuivant Join Date: Apr 2005	Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the Week: Neurological Disorder In GURPS 3E Neurological Disorder was called "Tourette's Syndrome." That disad originally appeared in the obscure GURPS 3E supplement "Callahan's Crosstime Saloon" along with other vaguely dubious traits like alcohol-related disadvantages. It was specifically created to model a character who appears in the Callahan's series who had severe Tourette's. Due to its huge impact on skills, it's not a good disad for PCs in most campaigns. Even in more cerebral problem-solving campaigns only a seriously committed roleplayer is going to choose it. Instead, from the player point of view, it's a great way to reduce the point cost of otherwise competent Allies or Dependents. From the GM's point of view, it's a great way to create memorable NPCs, or as a way to curse PCs. Arguably, ND should be a special case of Ham-Fisted or vice-versa, since the effects are similar. What makes ND more crippling, however, is the increased time required to perform fine manual tasks. Also potentially related to ND: Confused, Decreased Time Rate, Klutz, Lame, OPH, and Stuttering. Realistically, any level of ND is also going to be accompanied by problems like reduced Move and DX, as well as some or all of the additional disads listed above. A big aspect of ND that is missed in the write-up is balance problems. While ND focuses on the hassles that people with Parkinson's, Tourette's etc. face with fine motor tasks and involuntary tics, the big medical issue is fall injuries. GURPS doesn't have a disad to simulate poor balance, but it can easily be modeled by applying a -80% limitation ("Only for balance rolls") to levels of reduced DX. But, if -4 per level seems excessively generous, then perhaps a house-ruled "Poor Balance" trait worth -1 or -2 points per level would be fairer.

08-01-2019, 03:45 PM	#3
~~namada~~ Banned Join Date: Mar 2006	Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the Week: Neurological Disorder As someone that's been diagnosed with 2 ND's in the last 5 years (started having symptoms that I could recognize back in 2006, probably had some before), and will likely be diagnosed with another one or two in the coming years, this disadvantage needs a complete rewrite IMO. While I'm not a physician, I've come to learn a lot about ND's over the past decade, and rereading this Disadvantage today, because of this thread, had me realize how badly off from reality it truly is. I don't think anyone's ever used it in any of my games before though. So there's that too, it rarely comes up in play. If written more realistically though, it might see more use. At the very least, it needs a mitigator (at TL7+) limitation - pills reduce the symptoms for nearly all ND's these days.

08-02-2019, 02:59 AM	#6
Rupert Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Wellington, NZ	Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the Week: Neurological Disorder That works with this, and other levelled disadvantages. It doesn't work if you have the 1st level of Chronic Pain (for example) and want to reflect the pain killers you use only partially working on it (reducing the penalty to -1 from -2). I suppose you could assume that the mitigator works on half the disad and thus gives only half the cost reduction in this case, as the cost is linear. But how does one handle glasses that only partially correct Bad Sight? __________________ Rupert Boleyn "A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."

08-02-2019, 10:56 PM	#8
~~namada~~ Banned Join Date: Mar 2006	Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the Week: Neurological Disorder Many NDs come with psychological and mental impacts as well. As written, it seems to just focus on the tremor/tic effects. Thinking on it more, I suppose you might be better off building them as Meta-Traits, at least if you're looking to build something like MS, Parkinson's Disease, or Tourettes. This actually works as-is for Essential Tremor (I've got that), though my medications completely eliminate it for me, so I guess if I were to build myself as a character, I'd just have to apply mitigator to it - as long as I've got the pills, its not a disadvantage for me. ;)