Known Enemy - The Player AND The Character?

[jackalope044]

Okay, so, my group is having a bit of a tussle over this one.

When it comes to enemies, obviously the Enemy is unknown to both the player and the character.

However, what we're confused about is if a KNOWN enemy is known to both the player and the character, or if it can be just the player?

[robkelk]

I'd say that depends on how well the player can separate "player knowledge" and "character knowledge".

If the player can ignore the fact that the character's enemy just invited the character over for "a weekend of shooting," then I'd allow the player to take Enemy (unknown) while knowing who the character's enemy is. However, if the character starts preparing for The Most Dangerous Game upon getting such an invitation, then the character knows full well who the Enemy is, and thus shouldn't get the extra points for a unknown Enemy.

[jackalope044]

Originally Posted by robkelk

I'd say that depends on how well the player can separate "player knowledge" and "character knowledge".

If the player can ignore the fact that the character's enemy just invited the character over for "a weekend of shooting," then I'd allow the player to take Enemy (unknown) while knowing who the character's enemy is. However, if the character starts preparing for The Most Dangerous Game upon getting such an invitation, then the character knows full well who the Enemy is, and thus shouldn't get the extra points for a unknown Enemy.

It's not so much about the points, really. I mean, I wouldn't let somebody take Unknown unless they simply did not know about it.

It's more; If they take an enemy WITHOUT unknown, does this imply that the enemy is unknown to both the player and the character, or JUST the player?

[Anaraxes]

The enemy is always unknown to the character, and usually known to the player.

Disadvantages unknown even to the player would be a "secret disadvantage" (not to be confused with Secret). See B120. And note that you have to buy off the extra five points as soon as the nature of the secret disadvantage becomes known.

There's no reason you can't have Enemy as the secret disadvantage. But that's not the same thing as Enemy (unknown).

If the player has the character act as if they know who their enemy is, I'd just dock them points for poor roleplaying until the unknown-ness of the Enemy were bought off, and then change it to a regular Enemy known to the character. If you know the player is bad at this sort of thing, then that's the sort of discussion you ought to be having up front during the concept discussion and character creation sessions. Maybe you persuade them that it's not really an appropriate disad for their playing style, or maybe they get better at their firewalling. But that's an out-of-game discussion.

[DouglasCole]

I think what he's trying to say is that Unknown/Known applies ONLY to the character. It's not a metagame disadvantage the way, say, the advantage Common Sense was in 3e, or Luck is in 4e, that benefit the player directly.

Enemy only applies to the character. If the GM doesn't think the player can handle it, or the player doesn't want to know, then it can be kept secret from the player, but the knowledge resides in the fictional piece of paper (the character sheet).

[gilbertocarlos]

A unknown enemy would probably be if an evil guy put a reward on your head, and each time, a different group of mercenaries attack, you just know of the attack when they attack.

A known enemy is if the evil guy sent his black horde against you, when you see them, you know that you should run or draw your weapon.

If it's known for the player, should be known for the character, since the player knowing but the character don't forces metagaming.

[Kromm]

Unknown is worded as a modifier that makes the Enemy unknown to player and character alike. It's a meta-game agreement – you give the GM the right to create a surprise Enemy, in return for which he gives you an extra 5 points. An Enemy known to the player but unknown to the PC wouldn't be worth any extra points; lots of Enemies are like that. An Enemy known to the PC but unknown to the player would be a use of Secret Disadvantages (p. B120) and worth an extra 5 points as well, and I suppose would call for a degree of retconning ("Suddenly, you remember the brother of the man you killed."). By default, Enemies are known to both the player and the PC.