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11-13-2019, 04:39 AM | #1 |
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Tokyo
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revisiting the question of the Light Howitzer
The Light Howitzer seems to me to occupy a much needed place in the order of battle that the LAD does not fit. This of course has been debated before and I'm not interested in bringing that up again.
We now have an updated ruleset for Iron Mountain and courtesy of Battlefields, actual counters. However looking again at Iron Mountain in Ogrezine II, especially at the Classic style counter, a question occurs to me: can the light howitzer be moved and if so how easily? The classic counter illustration shows the sort of gun we are probably familiar with as one that can be towed. The rules in Ogrezine II however dont address this. No need to in the Iron Mountain scenario after all. We know its firepower and range, its defense value and that it is M0 and costs 1AU. In Iron Mountain it is worth 6VP. Though the counter was included as a courtesy in Battlefields, the most recent Battlefields rulebook makes no mention of the Light Howitzer at all. In this thread I'd like to exchange ideas on the following: Can it be towed? If so what kind of unit is required to do so? Regular truck, some sort of tank or larger? Finally since this is a crew served weapon, what sort of infantry is required in order to get it ready to move and how long does that take? My own thought based on the classic counter is that even a 1/1 could hook this up to any truck within a turn and a truck could pull it. This idea was met with a bit of skepticism on the Ogre Discord. I'd like to hear y'all's views and if possible it would be marvelous if Drew or Steve could rule on it. |
11-13-2019, 06:29 PM | #2 | ||
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Lancaster, PA
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Re: revisiting the question of the Light Howitzer
Rules as written [as per 15.04.8, Vulcans Towing Vehicles] it can't be towed because it's M0...
...but Ogre Minis 2nd edition helpfully describes how full-size Howitzers are constructed: Quote:
This is what I put on the Discord [and am posting here at Izzy's invitation], before double-checking that bit in the Minis 2nd book: Quote:
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Andy Mull MIB Agent #0460 Ogre 134th Battalion Lancaster, PA Imgur: https://agent0460.imgur.com/ |
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11-13-2019, 08:18 PM | #3 | ||
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Cleveland West
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Re: revisiting the question of the Light Howitzer
Per Izzy_B's request, I am also moving my replies to the Discord to this thread...
My First thoughts.... Quote:
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11-14-2019, 06:32 AM | #4 |
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Tokyo
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Re: revisiting the question of the Light Howitzer
Are TheAmishStig and Oldgamer72 both assuming the crew goes with the weapon and an dedicated infantry unit isn't required?
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11-14-2019, 03:55 PM | #5 |
Ogre Line Editor
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Plainfield, IL
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Re: revisiting the question of the Light Howitzer
I'm not sure what the distinction is you are making with that question. Are you asking about whether a new INF type is needed to crew the LHWZ, or are you asking if the cost of the LHWZ includes the cost of the crew, or something else?
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GranitePenguin Ogre Line Editor |
11-14-2019, 04:13 PM | #6 |
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Cleveland West
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Re: revisiting the question of the Light Howitzer
I think he's asking if there needs to be a squad of infantry with it and I would say no, it has dedicated crew. I believe, because it's a towed artillery piece(tube and carriage only) there has to be a dedicated support vehicle to transport the crew, ammunition and equipment for the piece. If the support vehicle gets destroyed, the crew and ammo is assumed lost and the artillery piece is rendered useless. So while it can be loaded in one turn and unloaded/setup in one turn, it has to have its support vehicle with it in the same hex to fire. Other trucks(or whatever can tow it, and save VP if necessary) but if the support vehicle is destroyed or not in the same hex it cannot fire. This offsets its rapid deployability and mid level strength and range. It also makes it more real world in the way it operates.
It differs from the howitzer in that the howitzer is very large and emplaced. While it is towed or transported in some fashion to its emplacement, the set up time/take down is far outside of the scope of the game. The LAD doesn't need a crew to setup or operate(only to breakdown or move) and has self contained ammunition but this is offset by its relative weakness and the time it takes to move. The LH would fill a niche between the two without being overpowered or "breaking" the game. Last edited by Oldgamer72; 11-14-2019 at 04:15 PM. Reason: Clarity |
11-14-2019, 04:37 PM | #7 | |
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Lancaster, PA
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Re: revisiting the question of the Light Howitzer
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I only brought them up to note that I don't think Combat Engineers should be necessary to tear one down; a crew trained to operate a towable artillery piece would logically also be trained to deploy / undeploy such a weapons system. Edited to add: I had a thought. Do you guys think such a thing should be more vulnerable when stowed (similar to how an LAD is D1, but an LAD Pallet is D0), either because its ECM is non-functional or because the fold/unfold bits are a weak point?
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Andy Mull MIB Agent #0460 Ogre 134th Battalion Lancaster, PA Imgur: https://agent0460.imgur.com/ |
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11-15-2019, 08:26 AM | #8 | ||||
Ogre Line Editor
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Plainfield, IL
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Re: revisiting the question of the Light Howitzer
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GranitePenguin Ogre Line Editor |
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