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Old 10-19-2013, 09:46 AM   #61
Christopher R. Rice
 
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Default Re: Power-Ups for RPM?

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Originally Posted by Refplace View Post
I have been mulling this over and also considering the article in Infinite Worlds.
My original thoughts were that A) I wanted Magic to have a high buy in cost so mages are less common. Magery on a 250 point budget is too easy to take as a tertiary power and still be good at it.
B) Magic is a pervading force in most fantasy and able to be used for just about anything. So a level above Godlike (Time) or Godlike (Space) seemed appropriate as Control (Magic) an do both and more.

However the utility comes into question.
Sure you can buy any power you want as an AA and in this case a higher base cost can be useful.
However what it actually does without an AA really should be a major factor in its cost.
Consider the +1 bonus or penalty to other skills or resistance rolls, Power Defense (Using Super Blocks and parries from Powers) and ability to contribute to other types of magic use or defence in various ways.
Even Power Stunts are really offset by the base cost and should not factor into a higher base cost just for the option.
I think I will change it for my campaign after mulling the above over.
It means redoing my spells so I have Rank 1 to 10 instead of Rank 1 to 5 for the same base cost. Trade in my Pentaphillia for more variety in spell levels.
Some of those Rank 1 spells I really wanted weaker anyhow :)
:-) Glad I could help.

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Originally Posted by Humabout View Post
I'm thinking of just using ghostdancer's pricing scheme for an ability that just reduces the multiplier for greater effects, and keep control (magic) it's own separate advantage. I like the potential in keeping control (magic) separate from "just" ignoring greater effect multipliers.
Keep in mind that's a limitation. You're nuking half the usability of the advantage by not allowing it to give bonuses to Path rolls. I'd eyeball it as maybe -20% or -10% - Yes, it's a big part of the power, but knocking down Greater effects is huge. Consider adding the +50% enhancement to let you affect others and yourself and you have a advantage that I'd call balanced. So the cost would be:


Very Common: All magic in the setting. 39 points/level.
Common: Specific path or effect. 26 points/level.
Occasional: A specific combination of effects (i.e., Sense Mind), a narrow focus of a specific Path (e.g., all fire effects from Path of Energy). 20 points/level.
Rare: A specific ritual. 13 points/level.



Going the opposite route if the Control can only give bonuses I'd call that about -50% or -60%, but -50% feels better.
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Old 10-19-2013, 08:13 PM   #62
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Default Re: Power-Ups for RPM?

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Originally Posted by Ghostdancer View Post
Keep in mind that's a limitation. You're nuking half the usability of the advantage by not allowing it to give bonuses to Path rolls.
Is a +1 that big of a path bonus? Assuming I understand your pricing scheme correctly, at third level for 120 CP, you get a +1 to Path rolls and can ignore up to one greater effect for any ritual. That +1 is miniscule beside the other benefit (it would cost 10 CP as an All-Paths Talent). Granted not all rituals have greater effects, but if you're specifically spending 120 points on a power-up that lets you ignore a greater effect, you are probably planning on using a lot of greater effects. And if you aren't aiming for the reduction in greater effect multiplier, why are you spending 40 points for a +1 to Path skills? Heck, with 9 path skills, its cheaper to just raise each one by a level (only 36 CP) or just buy up IQ by 1 (20 CP).

While I get you wanting to add in some utility at that price level, I really don't see being able to reduce other people's greater effect multipliers as being consistent with the intent behind this sort of power-up - "I'm freakin' awesome at magic and can do flashy things with it!" To add back in some of the lost utility, I suggest ignoring the need to Concentrate for a second, spend 2 FP and make an IQ roll to use this. So it becomes an always-on passive ability to cast some really flashy stuff more cheaply.

Then use Control (Magic) for all the fun stuff you are mentioning, like affecting others' greater effects multipliers, gather magic, successfully cast magic, etc. That would represent your ability to manipulate the ambient mana field itself.
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Old 10-19-2013, 08:31 PM   #63
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Default Re: Power-Ups for RPM?

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Is a +1 that big of a path bonus? Assuming I understand your pricing scheme correctly, at third level for 120 CP, you get a +1 to Path rolls and can ignore up to one greater effect for any ritual. That +1 is miniscule beside the other benefit (it would cost 10 CP as an All-Paths Talent). Granted not all rituals have greater effects, but if you're specifically spending 120 points on a power-up that lets you ignore a greater effect, you are probably planning on using a lot of greater effects. And if you aren't aiming for the reduction in greater effect multiplier, why are you spending 40 points for a +1 to Path skills? Heck, with 9 path skills, its cheaper to just raise each one by a level (only 36 CP) or just buy up IQ by 1 (20 CP).

While I get you wanting to add in some utility at that price level, I really don't see being able to reduce other people's greater effect multipliers as being consistent with the intent behind this sort of power-up - "I'm freakin' awesome at magic and can do flashy things with it!" To add back in some of the lost utility, I suggest ignoring the need to Concentrate for a second, spend 2 FP and make an IQ roll to use this. So it becomes an always-on passive ability to cast some really flashy stuff more cheaply.

Then use Control (Magic) for all the fun stuff you are mentioning, like affecting others' greater effects multipliers, gather magic, successfully cast magic, etc. That would represent your ability to manipulate the ambient mana field itself.
You get +1 per level of your Control. Again, Control (Psi) gives a +1 to psi skills per level and +1 to psi powers per 10 levels. So if you're going to keep a analogue to that, you need to keep it at least moderately sane.
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Old 10-19-2013, 08:51 PM   #64
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Default Re: Power-Ups for RPM?

Okay, I think I'm understanding this better. I'm sorry if I've been kind of thick, but I don't have the infinite worlds pyramid issue you're drawing Control (Psi) from. If I understand this correctly, everything from Control (__) is the same, except that instead of the rules for effects, you grant a +1 to psi skills per level and +1 to psi powers per 10 levels? So I'd still have to add Reduced FP Cost, Reduced Time, and potentially Cosmic, No Roll Required to make it something assumed to always affect the person with it? So something like this:

Control (Magic) (Cosmic, No Roll Required, +100%; Reduced FP Cost 2, +40%; Reduced Time, +20%; Magical, -10%) [50/level].
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Old 10-19-2013, 09:00 PM   #65
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Default Re: Power-Ups for RPM?

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Okay, I think I'm understanding this better. I'm sorry if I've been kind of thick, but I don't have the infinite worlds pyramid issue you're drawing Control (Psi) from. If I understand this correctly, everything from Control (__) is the same, except that instead of the rules for effects, you grant a +1 to psi skills per level and +1 to psi powers per 10 levels? So I'd still have to add Reduced FP Cost, Reduced Time, and potentially Cosmic, No Roll Required to make it something assumed to always affect the person with it? So something like this:

Control (Magic) (Cosmic, No Roll Required, +100%; Reduced FP Cost 2, +40%; Reduced Time, +20%; Magical, -10%) [50/level].
Actually, those effects replace the standard rules for Control. You don't need Reduced FP cost - Control doesn't cost FP, Create does. I don't know if I'd add Magical to this, because your ability is only usable in areas of magic. That would bring up the cost to 66 points/level. And you'd still only be able to affect others or yourself, to do both you'd need to add that +50% modifier bringing the cost up to 81 points/level. The more I look at this, the more I'm wondering if the Greater effects multiplier should be reduced every three levels. I only got to use this a couple of times in my game and only a small subset of effects (Control (Restore)). I think I'm going to need to run some numbers and see how it looks. Give me a bit and I'll post my results.
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Old 10-19-2013, 09:03 PM   #66
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Default Re: Power-Ups for RPM?

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Originally Posted by Humabout View Post
Okay, I think I'm understanding this better. I'm sorry if I've been kind of thick, but I don't have the infinite worlds pyramid issue you're drawing Control (Psi) from. If I understand this correctly, everything from Control (__) is the same, except that instead of the rules for effects, you grant a +1 to psi skills per level and +1 to psi powers per 10 levels? So I'd still have to add Reduced FP Cost, Reduced Time, and potentially Cosmic, No Roll Required to make it something assumed to always affect the person with it? So something like this:

Control (Magic) (Cosmic, No Roll Required, +100%; Reduced FP Cost 2, +40%; Reduced Time, +20%; Magical, -10%) [50/level].
Ah, you dont have access to the same material.
Control (X) in Powers gives a bonus or penalty in typical use.
Control (Psi) is a minor variation in Pyramid that does the same but also grants a power boost with enough levels if you like. It also has a limitation that you cant boost your own skill as they are internal.
I would love to copy the whole thing but of course its not my place.

So breaking it down...
Control (Magic) can give a +1 to abilities with Control (Psi) as ther precedent.
GhostDancer thinks you can add +50% Cosmic to even boost your own skill.
I think its not needed because with Magi your manipulating ambient energy, especially if your affecting Gather Energy rolls.
+1 IQ would do the same but only you and the only for magic is offset by the Affects Others Enhancement.
Ghost Dancer then adds the reduction in Greater Effects to make it more useful and it is a nice mechanic. Not sure what the value is on it though or if Control (Magic) is lowered from my initial suggestion of 40 to the 20 pricing as suggested above if the value is correct.
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Old 10-19-2013, 09:19 PM   #67
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Default Re: Power-Ups for RPM?

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Actually, those effects replace the standard rules for Control. You don't need Reduced FP cost - Control doesn't cost FP, Create does. I don't know if I'd add Magical to this, because your ability is only usable in areas of magic. That would bring up the cost to 66 points/level. And you'd still only be able to affect others or yourself, to do both you'd need to add that +50% modifier bringing the cost up to 81 points/level. The more I look at this, the more I'm wondering if the Greater effects multiplier should be reduced every three levels. I only got to use this a couple of times in my game and only a small subset of effects (Control (Restore)). I think I'm going to need to run some numbers and see how it looks. Give me a bit and I'll post my results.
I'm glad my fumblings may have helped! I'm curious to see what you come up with. If this is creeping toward a 100~ CP ability, I'd start arguing that each level should reduce/increase a greater effect multiplier by 1 greater effect.

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Ah, you dont have access to the same material.
Control (X) in Powers gives a bonus or penalty in typical use.
Control (Psi) is a minor variation in Pyramid that does the same but also grants a power boost with enough levels if you like. It also has a limitation that you cant boost your own skill as they are internal.
I would love to copy the whole thing but of course its not my place.

So breaking it down...
Control (Magic) can give a +1 to abilities with Control (Psi) as ther precedent.
GhostDancer thinks you can add +50% Cosmic to even boost your own skill.
I think its not needed because with Magi your manipulating ambient energy, especially if your affecting Gather Energy rolls.
+1 IQ would do the same but only you and the only for magic is offset by the Affects Others Enhancement.
Ghost Dancer then adds the reduction in Greater Effects to make it more useful and it is a nice mechanic. Not sure what the value is on it though or if Control (Magic) is lowered from my initial suggestion of 40 to the 20 pricing as suggested above if the value is correct.
I would think you can easily swamp only affecting others for only affecting yourself as a +0% feature. If anything, Control (Psi) (Self-Only) might be a limitation, based on things like the cost of a Talent that covers the 10 skills that govern RPM usage; your suggestion using IQ looks to support the 10 points-to-boost RPM rolls for myself thing.

That leaves 10 points/level not doing anything in Control (Magic). To this, Ghostdancer ascribes reducing Greater Effect multipliers. If you reduce one Greater Effect per 3 levels, that works out to a 30-point advantage split over three levels. In other words, 15 points per -1 reduction to the GE multiplier. This seems really cheap to me.
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Old 10-23-2013, 10:18 PM   #68
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Default Re: Power-Ups for RPM?

I ended up using this thread as a spring board for something in a Pyramid article. Thanks guys! Especially Refplace and Humabout. Hopefully you'll get to see the results Real Soon™. :-0
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Old 10-23-2013, 11:59 PM   #69
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Default Re: Power-Ups for RPM?

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I ended up using this thread as a spring board for something in a Pyramid article. Thanks guys! Especially Refplace and Humabout. Hopefully you'll get to see the results Real Soon™. :-0
Anytime! I sure hope that's not Blizzard Entertainment's version of "Real Soon™!"
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Old 10-24-2013, 09:33 AM   #70
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Anytime! I sure hope that's not Blizzard Entertainment's version of "Real Soon™!"
Me too. :-)
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