03-01-2021, 01:16 PM | #1 |
Ceci n'est pas une tag.
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Vancouver, WA (Portland Metro)
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Real life hangers on at Renaissance royal courts?
I'm kind of curious what sort of courtiers and other hangers on existed at a royal court. Does there exist any records that show the variety available?
And how about the various offices to run an efficient court, as the world drifted into centralized monarchies? (E.g., Louis XIV of France.) Thought experiment is, I'm imagining what an interstellar imperial court may be like. I really only have seen (fictional) glimpses, generally of Asian-style civilizations. What do courtiers do? It looks like a lot were nobles who were required (or chose) to be absent landlords for their estates.But also various staff and advisors (going by Wikipedia). Also probably lots of poets, musicians, artists, fools and jesters, and other entertainment.
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03-01-2021, 01:32 PM | #2 |
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lawrence, KS
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Re: Real life hangers on at Renaissance royal courts?
Baldassare Castiglioni wrote a book about it, which is still available, centuries later. He actually was a courtier and had some authority on the subject. I was amused by his rant about how the French nobles who came to Italy was uncultured hicks who cared only for war and hunting.
There is some material on this is Norbert Elias's Power and Civility. The first volume quoted from manuals of etiquette aimed at noblemen who were going to be presented at medieval royal courts.
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03-01-2021, 03:38 PM | #3 |
Join Date: Jul 2007
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Re: Real life hangers on at Renaissance royal courts?
One thing I wonder about is if historical bureaucratic governments like in China or the Eastern Roman Empire were constantly being reorganized every decade or so like happens a lot nowadays.
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03-01-2021, 05:06 PM | #4 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Shoreline, WA (north of Seattle)
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Re: Real life hangers on at Renaissance royal courts?
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03-02-2021, 01:41 AM | #5 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Udine, Italy
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Re: Real life hangers on at Renaissance royal courts?
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First thing, the ideal Renaissance man was good at everything, or at least at every lofty enterprise. You wouldn't have a nobleman who also was a jester or actor, but a nobleman should be able to entertain the king, other nobles, the whole court with poetry, witticism, possibly music, games etc. Likewise, in due time professional advisors, managers and administrators would become more and more common; but ideally, the king would want a clever, nice, court-residing nobleman to supervise the royal porcelain factory or the like. Naturally the noble would delegate all the hard work, but if the factory did well, he'd gain both the king's favor and some pretty money. So to go back to the question of what did they do: anything that would make them noticed and liked by the king. Curry favor. Get cushy appointments. |
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03-02-2021, 12:05 PM | #6 | |
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Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: far from the ocean
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Re: Real life hangers on at Renaissance royal courts?
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So what's the unemployment rate for a courtier then? as in how many people are looking for appointments rather than already having them? It will vary by court and king, of course, but a rough idea would be nice.
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03-02-2021, 05:12 PM | #7 |
Join Date: Nov 2004
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Re: Real life hangers on at Renaissance royal courts?
I recommend the movie Ridicule. It's fiction, but has a very good portrayal of the court of Louis XVI.
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03-03-2021, 01:44 AM | #8 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Udine, Italy
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Re: Real life hangers on at Renaissance royal courts?
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You would also vie for posts that did not bring a direct monetary remuneration, but that would give you influence. For instance, a true wine professional would actually run the court's winery, but there would be a nobleman with a title such as Overseer of the Royal Winery who would be the professional's boss. His job would actually be recommending wines and talking about wines with the King - which meant access to the King, therefore influence. |
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03-03-2021, 10:50 AM | #9 | |
Join Date: Nov 2004
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Re: Real life hangers on at Renaissance royal courts?
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Re: Unemployment rates, I understand they were fairly high. A lot of people with a title but not much else trying desperately to get some kind of post that pays or gets bribes or otherwise will get them out of hock. They're in debt to their tailors, their grocers, and everyone else who provides for their needs, and only their titles are keeping large men with clubs from discussing their debts in an alley somewhere. |
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03-03-2021, 08:56 PM | #10 |
Join Date: Oct 2011
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Re: Real life hangers on at Renaissance royal courts?
The unemployment rate is strongly tied to age, too. In pre-Revolutionary France, every family who was anybody sent the oldest son to Court as soon as he could be trusted out of his parents' sight (or perhaps slightly sooner). There he would engage in the sort of loutish behavior that a noble young man thinks impresses kings, trying to secure an appointment or three. By around 30, he either has a sinecure or two, or he slinks back to the family estate in the country. Middle-aged courtiers with no defined portfolio or duties were rare; but at the same time, something rather like the fraternities in Animal House and Revenge of the Nerds is going on in the King's vicinity.
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